Anyone thinking about an VW ID.4 Instead?

[mycroftxxx]

Way too much brightwork. Chrome delete ftw.

Exterior style wise it's like a Rav4 and a CRV got busy one night in the parking garage.

The ID.4 looks much better in person than in photos/renders, IMO. I’ve seen several in real life and…I think they look pretty good. I still prefer the Y’s looks, but if the rebate had been a big deal for me, I might have waited on buying the MY until the opportunity to at least drive the ID.4.

Overall, I’m cautiously optimistic that existing manufacturers like VAG, combined with newcomers like Rivian, Lucid, etc., will put pressure on Tesla to up its game, especially in the build quality and amenities areas. I’ll be back in the market for a new car in a few years and there should be several new choices with enough experience under their collective belts to provide real competition to Tesla, which will be good news for everyone.

 

[PineNut]

Interesting how all the opinions differ on the looks of the ID.4 vs MY. My two cents are that they both look good enough to me though I think the ID.4 looks nicer from the rear than the MY which looks wide at the bottom half and thin at the top. But I'd take either based on looks. It's other issues with the ID.4 that concern me.

From the ID.4 forums I see too many posts regarding repairs where they need to order parts. It seems most parts currently have to come from Germany and it takes weeks/months to get them. I'm sure it will improve, especially once the cars are made in the US. The other big concern is the ID.4 batteries are made by LG who also makes the batteries for the Kona and Bolt EV which had to be recalled due to fires. There have already been fires in Europe with an ID.3 and ID.4. I think it took 2-3 years for the Bolts to start burning. Again, it will probably be fixed and I think VW is switching to another supplier, but it's a big concern for now.

One big advantage is that the ID.4 is about $10K less expensive, plus it qualifies for the current $7500 tax credit. We still don't know if the BBB Bill will pass. However, that price comparison is based on the 2021 ID.4 and I don't see that they have announced 2022 prices yet.

 

[TomServo]

Looks like the ID.4 cute-UTE from VW will be out around the end of the year. Pre-orders start next month. 2021 Volkswagen ID.4 electric car: Everything we know in advance of full reveal

Things we can expect over the Model Y:

• Apple Carplay / Android Auto (w/o a $10 charge to use media and map options)
• CCS supercharging
• Heated steering wheel
• Instrument cluster
• Heads-up display
• Federal $7,500 tax rebate
• German fit / finish
• Nationwide dealership service

I don't expect it to be a Tesla killer, but competition is good and EM is very competitive. Maybe we will see a CCS adapter and Carplay / Auto support finally. I will be first in line for the LR AWD version.

Will you be one of those non-Tesla charging at SuperChargers?

 

[voxel]

I read many articles and you tube video about EV brands. I decided to get Tesla MYLR. I will not consider VW ID4, I rather get the Mustang MACH-E. The VW was not on my list at all. The interior is ugly, the price is not cheap. Tesla is more establish company on EV, charging stations are everywhere.

The ID.4 is cheeeap like $38K ($45K OTD in FL) after $7500 discount. I paid $62K OTD for my Model Y with 20" but now that version would cost $66K so the ID.4 is at least $24K cheaper... maybe $28K if you had to buy today. The AWD version is only $3.5K more.

My current Mach-E is a better overall car than the Model Y IMO - because it drives/handles like my fav EV of all... the Model 3. Model Y is a great car with some compromises. I still plan to switch back to a Model Y if the tax credit passes because at the same price points, the Model Y is a better value and has proven technology. Unsure of the longevity of a first gen car like the 2021 Mach-E.

 

[voxel]

Things we can expect over the Model Y:

• Apple Carplay / Android Auto (w/o a $10 charge to use media and map options)

After owning an ID.4 and Mach-E... I can laugh at people who claim Apple CarPlay is some benefit. It's a buggy crappy mess. I only use CarPlay for Spotify. It's not fully integrated into either car. On a Tesla, you can say "Play song on Spotify" or "Navigate home" and it works almost 100% of the time. The other two cars.. no.

 

[OxBrew]

I hope VW gets battery cooling right. Won't know for sure until they have 4-5 years real world history.

Same with Suba-Yota, Ford, Rivian.

I am not holding my breath with any of them.

 

[voxel]

I hope VW gets battery cooling right. Won't know for sure until they have 4-5 years real world history.

Same with Suba-Yota, Ford, Rivian.

I am not holding my breath with any of them.

The ID.4 battery cooling tech is excellent. Researchers put an ID.3 (smaller ID.4 for Europe only) and Model 3 LFP on a dyno and measured the battery temps and power output. The VW system kept the temps under 34C (very aggressive) while Tesla let it rise to the higher 30s. I need to dig up the research article/experiment. Bjorn's has documented the Ioniq 5 and EV6 letting battery temps go to 41C before the car thermal throttles them (can't hard accelerate and slow DC charging). His videos are always enlightening.

The Mach-E's cooling system isn't as robust but that's been documented.

The problem is RELIABILITY of VW battery coolant pump components. Something is failing. Or like many have experienced... false positives which shuts down the car. It's their version of Phantom Braking.

 

[OxBrew]

The ID.4 battery cooling tech is excellent. Researchers put an ID.3 (smaller ID.4 for Europe only) and Model 3 LFP on a dyno and measured the battery temps and power output. The VW system kept the temps under 34C (very aggressive) while Tesla let it rise to the higher 30s. I need to dig up the research article/experiment. Bjorn's has documented the Ioniq 5 and EV6 letting battery temps go to 41C before the car thermal throttles them (can't hard accelerate and slow DC charging). His videos are always enlightening.

The Mach-E's cooling system isn't as robust but that's been documented.

The problem is RELIABILITY of VW battery coolant pump components. Something is failing. Or like many have experienced... false positives which shuts down the car. It's their version of Phantom Braking.

Re the cooling side, great, good to hear.

Still, it's not just ultimate cell temps, but also the delta in temp across the cell in all 3 axes. if you only draw heat out of one side of a flat cell, you get higher temp gradients across the cell, which sets up dissimilar expansion rates in the layers, can cause early delamination. For cylindrical cells, their shape lets you pull heat out of 1/3 of the side and does not set up such bad gradients overall.

But if it's LFP, it's not as critical, more resilient.

And all of this is based on 3-5 year old tech, depending on the manufacturer, so advances could be mitigating the problem. I've have not seen latest developments since I left the company where I was designing carrier racks and all the other hardware around the pouch cell modules for stationary storage last year (our cell design was 2 years old back then).

 

[mycroftxxx]

After owning an ID.4 and Mach-E... I can laugh at people who claim Apple CarPlay is some benefit. It's a buggy crappy mess. I only use CarPlay for Spotify. It's not fully integrated into either car. On a Tesla, you can say "Play song on Spotify" or "Navigate home" and it works almost 100% of the time. The other two cars.. no.

that’s your anecdotal information; mine, from four years in a GTI and multiple Honda and Mazda rentals, is that CarPlay worked flawlessly, including using voice for navigation, music, making phone calls, and sending and receiving texts. My MY…more hit and and miss. But I went into it with eyes open about the lack of CarPlay (and SiriusXM), as trades I was willing to make for a reasonably mature BEV.

 

[voxel]

that’s your anecdotal information; mine, from four years in a GTI and multiple Honda and Mazda rentals, is that CarPlay worked flawlessly, including using voice for navigation, music, making phone calls, and sending and receiving texts. My MY…more hit and and miss. But I went into it with eyes open about the lack of CarPlay (and SiriusXM), as trades I was willing to make for a reasonably mature BEV.

I'm not the only one. You can search the ID.4 and Mach-E forums. The integration isn't seamless. I never used CarPlay before these two BEVs and my experience has not been positive but you aren't the only one who has mentioned it was better on other previous cars. Wired CarPlay definitely works better than Wireless CarPlay though.

It's gotten to the point where folks are buying CarPlay AI boxes which I might try myself. CarPlay on the ID.4 and Mach-E run in parallel to the native system. So on the ID.4 I was finding the native system (SiriusXM) and CarPlay fighting for audio.

Why i bought the CarPlay AI Box

I've seen allot of posts about the carplay AI Box and many other similar products that allow you to add a fully functional Android UI on our Mach-E via Apple Car Play integration. I've also seen allot of people on here completely roast others for spending the money on one of these without really...

www.macheforum.com

 

[RSpanner]

I was signed up for a VW id.4 AWD about 4 months ago. I was also sighned up (paid down payment) for a Model 3 AWD about a month and a half before.
Got so would up with the VW dealer that I forgot about the Tesla order. Then the VWdealer lied to me about the date of delivery and I told him to cancel the order (well I did on the VW build site ) About an hour later I got a call from Tesla in Portland..saying my Model 3 was in and that I can pick it up.
Thor or the god Pan must have been listening and laughing at the same time. Man, do I love the Model 3..

 

[drtimhill]

Way too much brightwork. Chrome delete ftw.

Exterior style wise it's like a Rav4 and a CRV got busy one night in the parking garage.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder guys, its pointless arguing which is "better" when there cannot be an objective standard.

 

[Pianewman]

I was signed up for a VW id.4 AWD about 4 months ago. I was also sighned up (paid down payment) for a Model 3 AWD about a month and a half before.
Got so would up with the VW dealer that I forgot about the Tesla order. Then the VWdealer lied to me about the date of delivery and I told him to cancel the order (well I did on the VW build site ) About an hour later I got a call from Tesla in Portland..saying my Model 3 was in and that I can pick it up.
Thor or the god Pan must have been listening and laughing at the same time. Man, do I love the Model 3..

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder guys, its pointless arguing which is "better" when there cannot be an objective standard.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! A VW dealer "lied" about date of delivery??? Wow, that's a new one, never heard of that before.

Delivery dates are never firm.

 

[Corndart]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder guys, its pointless arguing which is "better" when there cannot be an objective standard.

Someone else was commenting about how nice looking they felt the car was.

It has other qualities but I dislike the looks of the ID.4. Certainly not trying to argue or change anyone elses opinion and frankly don't see much value in your comment when OP was basically asking for opinions.

 

[drtimhill]

It has other qualities but I dislike the looks of the ID.4. Certainly not trying to argue or change anyone elses opinion and frankly don't see much value in your comment when OP was basically asking for opinions.

My point wasn't that people should not post their preferences (which, as you note, was the point of the thread), but that a response to such a post saying (essentially), "You're wrong" is meaningless when it comes to expressing preferences, since there is no right or wrong when it comes to personal taste.

 

[RSpanner]

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! A VW dealer "lied" about date of delivery??? Wow, that's a new one, never heard of that before.

Delivery dates are never firm.

yeah, by 6 MONTHS!! First he siad a month and a half, then 6..and that was for the AWD version ..I don't need a lecture.

 

[Pianewman]

RSpanner: Not a lecture, just a reality check. What the VW dealer did to you is SOP at virtually ANY dealership.

Funny that you would choose Tesla after this "lie" by the VW dealer. Tesla is the WORST for EDD info.

 

[gtbguy]

I've owned a bunch of different makes of cars in my life, but the Big 3, Audi, and VW I will never ever buy again.

 

[eevee-fan]

Good thing with robotaxi becoming reality, this may be the last car we'd be buying.

InsideEVs : See How A 2015 Tesla Model S 70D Holds Up After 424,000 Miles.

See How A 2015 Tesla Model S 70D Holds Up After 424,000 Miles

This 2015 Tesla Model S 70D has 424,000 miles under its belt mostly from Uber duty, but you wouldn't realize that if you looked at it and took it for a drive.

insideevs.com

 

[pepperoni]

I've owned a bunch of different makes of cars in my life, but the Big 3, Audi, and VW I will never ever buy again.

I have owned many cars as well but the two that rank at the very bottom of the list were made by VW. No contest! I lost track of the number of times my wife was stranded on the side of the road in her new Jetta station wagon. Why the heck we held on to that car for so long I will never know. And our other VW was worse. I will never purchase another VW as long as I live.