AP makes it so relaxing to drive!!

[Konicom04]

Oh, so now you're saying my little girly hands and dainty arms are too wimpy for Tesla to recognize. We can't all have big gorilla hands like you! Haha just kidding.

Im a small European boy just living in this great vast country

 

[TesslaBull]

I drove a loaner M3 the other weekend while the Y was in the shop. Got to try out EAP. It was awesome. I'd pay $1000 tomorrow for it, maybe $1500 (would chat with wife first) $6k? that's just silly.

I wonder if anyone is doing the math on the uptake of lower priced EAP. If they had 90% uptake at $1000 I bet they make a lot more $$$. Their marginal cost right now is close to $0 to let us have it, so IDK what the hold up is.

I'd pay $1k for EAP(if it truly worked really well). But like you, not any chance I'd spend $6k.

 

[E90alex]

I was talking about all of the above. Granted, I haven’t used basic in recent months, but did last year. As long as I applied the slight torque required, I wasn’t ever nagged. If you’re still getting nagged while applying enough torque to the steering wheel, I’d get another experienced Tesla driver to check and/or make a service appointment.

In other vehicles where the steering is not so dead locked like on Autopilot, minimal pressure is needed for the system to detect hands on steering torque.

In my VW I didn’t have to make it a conscious effort to do so and wouldn’t get any nags, just hold the steering as normal with normal steering corrections is enough.

In my Tesla my normal wheel holding is not enough and since its dead locked into the center of the lane and doesn’t allow any natural steering corrections, I have to actively try to torque the wheel with enough force to overcome the centering force but not enough to disengage the system. It’s highly annoying and not user friendly. Combined with the warning being very low on the screen at first and not very visible until the top of the screen starts flashing blue or it beeps at you, it’s not a seamless experience.

 

[TresLA]

In other vehicles where the steering is not so dead locked like on Autopilot, minimal pressure is needed for the system to detect hands on steering torque.

In my VW I didn’t have to make it a conscious effort to do so and wouldn’t get any nags, just hold the steering as normal with normal steering corrections is enough.

In my Tesla my normal wheel holding is not enough and since its dead locked into the center of the lane and doesn’t allow any natural steering corrections, I have to actively try to torque the wheel with enough force to overcome the centering force but not enough to disengage the system. It’s highly annoying and not user friendly. Combined with the warning being very low on the screen at first and not very visible until the top of the screen starts flashing blue or it beeps at you, it’s not a seamless experience.

This sounds like you’re just used to another system‘s expectations. Tesla’s system makes sense if the driver isn’t expected to need to apply any “normal steering corrections” (aka ”all input is error” principle). It’s steering is “deadlocked” because Tesla‘s goal is to not require input from the driver, but to only require attention. With this in mind, just know that plenty of owners have no issue with nags because we naturally apply the correct amount of force.

It’s much easier to understand and not be disappointed if you see Tesla as fundamentally “shooting for the stars” in a sense, instead of aiming for “mere ADAS”. Is it a better approach? Hard to say since that would require predicting the future, but it’s apples and oranges nonetheless. This isn’t to say other manufacturers systems stink. They’re just aiming for different goals. When I drive other cars (I often need to), I’m always testing the boundaries of how their systems perform. In some ways it’s disappointing, but only if I compare to Tesla using the goals of what Tesla is trying to achieve. e.g. - no one else has anything close when it comes to a consumer product that can drive in the most varying circumstances and roads.

 

[Konicom04]

In other vehicles where the steering is not so dead locked like on Autopilot, minimal pressure is needed for the system to detect hands on steering torque.

In my VW I didn’t have to make it a conscious effort to do so and wouldn’t get any nags, just hold the steering as normal with normal steering corrections is enough.

my '23 M3P is exactly like that - no effort whatsoever - just resting hand

 

[Konicom04]

This sounds like you’re just used to another system‘s expectations. Tesla’s system makes sense if the driver isn’t expected to need to apply any “normal steering corrections” (aka ”all input is error” principle). It’s steering is “deadlocked” because Tesla‘s goal is to not require input from the driver, but to only require attention. With this in mind, just know that plenty of owners have no issue with nags because we naturally apply the correct amount of force.

It’s much easier to understand and not be disappointed if you see Tesla as fundamentally “shooting for the stars” in a sense, instead of aiming for “mere ADAS”. Is it a better approach? Hard to say since that would require predicting the future, but it’s apples and oranges nonetheless. This isn’t to say other manufacturers systems stink. They’re just aiming for different goals. When I drive other cars (I often need to), I’m always testing the boundaries of how their systems perform. In some ways it’s disappointing, but only if I compare to Tesla using the goals of what Tesla is trying to achieve. e.g. - no one else has anything close when it comes to a consumer product that can drive in the most varying circumstances and roads.

/\/\ this /\/\

 

[E90alex]

This sounds like you’re just used to another system‘s expectations. Tesla’s system makes sense if the driver isn’t expected to need to apply any “normal steering corrections” (aka ”all input is error” principle). It’s steering is “deadlocked” because Tesla‘s goal is to not require input from the driver, but to only require attention. With this in mind, just know that plenty of owners have no issue with nags because we naturally apply the correct amount of force.

It’s much easier to understand and not be disappointed if you see Tesla as fundamentally “shooting for the stars” in a sense, instead of aiming for “mere ADAS”. Is it a better approach? Hard to say since that would require predicting the future, but it’s apples and oranges nonetheless. This isn’t to say other manufacturers systems stink. They’re just aiming for different goals. When I drive other cars (I often need to), I’m always testing the boundaries of how their systems perform. In some ways it’s disappointing, but only if I compare to Tesla using the goals of what Tesla is trying to achieve. e.g. - no one else has anything close when it comes to a consumer product that can drive in the most varying circumstances and roads.

Normal steering corrections as in nudging the wheel to avoid ruts and potholes or give more space to large vehicles in the next lane. It would otherwise center itself without input.

I don’t care about a hypothetical future where AP/FSD is so good it doesn’t require any user input. It’s not there right now (and likely won’t be for a long time), but I’m using the car right now, so I care about how it operates right now.

 

[kavyboy]

It’s steering is “deadlocked” because Tesla‘s goal is to not require input from the driver, but to only require attention.

But it doesn't have to be deadlocked. It could allow limited driver input that also serves as an attention notice without disengaging AP. I know this because AP1 used to do this. It was not only a 100% workable design, it was superior to what we have now with no downside. For example, without disengaging you could move over a bit when passing a truck or avoid an upcoming pothole. I did this all the time. I never accidentally disengaged when "the nudge" was available and I never got nags because I was actively but optionally involved in using the wheel even under AP. Then it changed from "we can do this" to "touch the wheel, but not too much, AP's got this .. repeat .. repeat .. repeat.. RIGHT NOW YOU ARE IN FULL CONTROL!!".

 

[Yelobird]

Our arguably lower luxury status 2022 Kia Niro EV, with its free of extra charge driver assist, allows manual lane change without disengaging lane keep assist. So as you approach slow traffic, you active the turn signal, perform a manual lane change while lane keep assist automatically pauses, then lane keep assist automatically resumes after the manual lane change. No disengage, no re-engage. Vastly superior user experience to Tesla's basic AP. For those not living with blinders and rose colored glasses, this is how many(most) others work. As it should be. Tesla is attempting, as well as claiming, to offer superior driver assistance. This is a glaring weakness that makes Tesla's basic AP vastly inferior to competitors.

Pros: Tesla keeps the car centered better than our Kia. The Kia tends to drift side to side within the lane a bit more. But lane changes are much easier.

Sorry had to see how valid any of your “sales pitch” on the Kia is and from the reviews, pinball lane keep, constant nag, and Advertised only for certain federal roads which states it “May” assist I think I will pass on your opinion. You understood what self driving solutions Tesla offered having recently purchased so not sure Why you feel you deserve more? Want more, download. Maybe your stock investment should be moved to Kia to support their so impressive (to you) offering. No sense sticking with a company or product that you feel is so unworthy of your value. Kia stock should SO skyrocket based on your professional view. Good luck, sticking with my MY. Love it.

 

[JB47394]

Basic AP. If I don't intentionally apply a more significant amount of force on the steering than just keeping my hand resting naturally, I cannot go even 1 minute without a nag.

How much force do you have to apply to disengage Autopilot by turning the wheel?

 

[Supcom]

Being willing to admit a weakness of a product is not bashing, especially when it is involving basic features that the competition is doing a better job at. Tesla does some things really really well. Fantastic actually. I get annoyed every time I drive our Kia as I always forget to turn the car off or take the key with me, or have to manually press a button to turn the car on/off or lock/unlock the car etc etc. Tesla, for the most part, just does things better. So when they lag significantly, it stands out. Manual lane changes without disengaging basic lane keep assist is incredibly convenient, user friendly, and is commonly offered.

I wonder if manual lane change capability(without disengaging AP) could be added with just a software update. Maybe? Seems like it should. I mean, it would simply be: turn signal, AP pause, resume when new lane is centered.

It's not a weakness of the product. Tesla simply chooses to charge extra for the lane change feature, which is bundled with other ADAS capabilities, like Navigate on Autopilot. You can buy EAP using your Tesla App and you will have the features you want within minutes.

With EAP, you can change lanes by using the turn signal to initiate the lane change. Or, you can let Navigate of Autopilot automatically change lanes as needed. No OTA download is required. Once you pay for EAP, Tesla will enable it withing minutes.

 

[Konicom04]

It's not a weakness of the product. Tesla simply chooses to charge extra for the lane change feature, which is bundled with other ADAS capabilities, like Navigate on Autopilot. You can buy EAP using your Tesla App and you will have the features you want within minutes.

With EAP, you can change lanes by using the turn signal to initiate the lane change. Or, you can let Navigate of Autopilot automatically change lanes as needed. No OTA download is required. Once you pay for EAP, Tesla will enable it withing minutes.

to be fair to the OP - the navigate on autopilot is quite scary and erratic if you ask me.
Changing lanes by stalk input takes some getting used to, and I am convinced an average user isn't comfortable with the "flow"

Still, I stand by my opinion that tesla systems are superior to anything else out there. One just needs to be willing to a bit of a guinea pig

 

[JB47394]

It's not a weakness of the product. Tesla simply chooses to charge extra for the lane change feature, which is bundled with other ADAS capabilities, like Navigate on Autopilot. You can buy EAP using your Tesla App and you will have the features you want within minutes.

It's a weak product by design. To make a lane change, the driver must use stalks on both sides of the wheel in a five step process. It's absurd. At least the driver doesn't have to turn off the indicator anymore.

 

[E90alex]

Tesla simply chooses to charge extra for the lane change feature

We’re not talking about automated or assisted lane changes here. I don’t care about that. We just want to change lanes manually without having to disengage and re-engage the system every single time. Tesla is the only system that operates this way.

 

[Zigzagmolly]

Title is sarcastic.

Here is my actual daily use of AP. I have a 16 mile stretch of highway as part my daily commute each way. Easy drive, no congestion, 55 mph the entire way.

Cruise set to 63 mph, so slower than average. I tried to pay attention to my trip yesterday and here is what I observed:

I had to manually disengage AP 5 or 6 times in order to go around slower traffic, change lanes, change back, then re-engage autopilot. Other companies allow this to be done without disengaging/re-engaging. Not user friendly at all, and significantly inferior to competitors.

Despite manually disengaging AP 5-6 times thereby reducing the number of nags I would have gotten, I got nagged 15 times during the 16 mile stretch.

So during the ~14 minutes it takes to drive that stretch, 15 nags + 5-6 disengage/re-engage. How relaxing. That is laughably terrible.

Fix the constant nagging. Others do it. Fix the constant manual disengage/re-engage in order to drive completely normal and pass people/make lane changes. Competitors base systems do this, so in before "just pay $6,000 for EAP".

AP, in terms of making even a 15 minute easy highway drive, is more of a nuisance than not using it.

I have EAP (Enhanced Autopilot) on my 2018 M3LR. I drive mostly on the highway, so absolutely LOVE it. I clap to the music coming from the 15 speakers and when it nags me, I just roll the volume wheel on the steering wheel up or up and down a bit. When I want to pass a car, I tap the signal pole and it waits until it is clear to get me into the other lane. I still have to pay attention WHEN it does nag me, but so easy to resolve. Having my car drive me while listening to such awesome music is HEAVEN!!

 

[JHCCAZ]

I have EAP (Enhanced Autopilot) on my 2018 M3LR. I drive mostly on the highway, so absolutely LOVE it. I clap to the music coming from the 15 speakers and when it nags me, I just roll the volume wheel on the steering wheel up or up and down a bit. When I want to pass a car, I tap the signal pole and it waits until it is clear to get me into the other lane. I still have to pay attention WHEN it does nag me, but so easy to resolve. Having my car drive me while listening to such awesome music is HEAVEN!!

Proof that Tesla Autosteer is the best system for Zigzaggers.

 

[Supcom]

We’re not talking about automated or assisted lane changes here. I don’t care about that. We just want to change lanes manually without having to disengage and re-engage the system every single time. Tesla is the only system that operates this way.

Tesla does many things differently that other car makers. Whether that's a good thing or not is up to each of us. At least there are other options available.

 

[TesslaBull]

Sorry had to see how valid any of your “sales pitch” on the Kia is and from the reviews, pinball lane keep, constant nag, and Advertised only for certain federal roads which states it “May” assist I think I will pass on your opinion. You understood what self driving solutions Tesla offered having recently purchased so not sure Why you feel you deserve more? Want more, download. Maybe your stock investment should be moved to Kia to support their so impressive (to you) offering. No sense sticking with a company or product that you feel is so unworthy of your value. Kia stock should SO skyrocket based on your professional view. Good luck, sticking with my MY. Love it.

Constructive debate and differing opinions can often be enlightening. Of all the forums I have ever participated in over the years, some of which I have been very active on for many years, I have put less people on ignore than what I can count on one hand. Welcome to that exclusive club. Your post is not worthy of a response. Goodbye and good riddance!

 

[WyoDude]

AP is superior to the previous driver systems I came from. No phantom breaking issues. Makes my commute way better. And the system will and has improve while I own it. Previous car system was locked in.

I would like for AP to reengage after changing lanes but I guess a quick double tap doesn’t seem like a big deal to me.

 

[JohnB007]

Once Tesla moves all of their drive assist features based on a subset of current version of FSD, I think it will address many of the issues talked about here....

I don't think it will take that long for this to happen, given how well the current version of FSD handles on highways already.

As for the nag, it's probably not FSD specific, but it takes quite a bit less force to remove the nag compare to few months ago, and also happens less often when you are looking ahead.

Just like everything else on Tesla software, they are improving, with one step back here and there along the way.