AP2.0 Cameras: Capabilities and Limitations?

[croman]

That is attached to slow moving vehicles. It is a caution. Its used in the US as well. Its part of the driver's exams given in states.

Amazon.com : Slow Moving Vehicle - warning sign : Sign And Poster Kits : Office Products

Amazon seems to have it only in orange but its definitely red and white too (as Tesla depicts).

 

[verygreen]

That is attached to slow moving vehicles. It is a caution. Its used in the US as well. Its part of the driver's exams given in states.

Amazon.com : Slow Moving Vehicle - warning sign : Sign And Poster Kits : Office Products

Amazon seems to have it only in orange but its definitely red and white too (as Tesla depicts).

The TN driver handbook says it's yellow.
The red ones are used in Europe for warning signs, also as warnings universally when something is stopped (like a truck, but in Europe you are supposed to place one like that behind a regular car that stopped due to breakage or whatever).

How Tesla is going to use it - I have no idea. it's just there in the pictures, named "ipso".

 

[croman]

The TN driver handbook says it's yellow.
The red ones are used in Europe for warning signs, also as warnings universally when something is stopped (like a truck, but in Europe you are supposed to place one like that behind a regular car that stopped due to breakage or whatever).

How Tesla is going to use it - I have no idea. it's just there in the pictures, named "ipso".

You do realize your pictorial dump will spawn yet another Electrek article? Congrats on keeping the "EV/Tesla" news outlets alive.

 

[verygreen]

You do realize your pictorial dump will spawn yet another Electrek article? Congrats on keeping the "EV/Tesla" news outlets alive.

Why would it? It's nothing new and have been there for ages I am sure.
I just checked and 2.7 release did not have it, but 2.9 (part of 7.1) already had the stop sign and traffic lights.
2.28.19 added ipso red triangle and pedestrian icons (I don't have a reference point between the 2.9 and 2.28, so cannot tell for sure when it was added).
So since early 2016 at least it seems.

 

[croman]

Why would it? It's nothing new and have been there for ages I am sure.
I just checked and 2.7 release did not have it, but 2.9 (part of 7.1) already had the stop sign and traffic lights.
2.28.19 added ipso red triangle and pedestrian icons (I don't have a reference point between the 2.9 and 2.28, so cannot tell for sure when it was added).
So since early 2016 at least it seems.

Sure, MobilEye EyeQ3 was capable of this but Tesla never intended to deploy such features except with AP2. I think it will generate headlines because the pictures create assumptions that reinforce existing narratives that Tesla will be deploying sign recognition and actions based on that recognition. AP1 was said to read signs but no promises were made that it would act on what it saw/recognized.

 

[lunitiks]

These are all the possible autopilot IC pictograms

Where is the cat/dog/moose, ambulance/police car/firetruck, pot hole, road block, ufo etc,?

But seriously, where is the main car (your car), the disco lights, autopilot symbol etc.?

 

[BigD0g]

Not to mention people walking left to right or trucks turning right, still great information, I suspect thats what they are trying to train in shadow mode, and until it's 100% they'll just keep showing a car like they do now. Maybe by the end of August for showing multiple lanes and objects in the lanes, maybe...

 

[croman]

Where is the cat/dog/moose, ambulance/police car/firetruck, pot hole, road block, ufo etc,?

But seriously, where is the main car (your car), the disco lights, autopilot symbol etc.?

Those will all be represented by a Tesla Model S, duh.

I got my AP2 car before AP was released. Your car (avatar) and the symbols on top were always present so they might be in a different database (like the same ones for the car issues (seatbelt, traction control, etc.).

FWIW, the avatar just drove on an empty road (nothing, not even the light grey unbound road was there, it was just formless gray gray gray).

 

[ABC2D]

Not to mention people walking left to right or trucks turning right

(I think you meant trucks (and cars) turning left, as the right turning trucks are pictured)
Those can be represented with the same images as shown, just flipped, no need to unnecessary double image base

 

[BigD0g]

(I think you meant trucks (and cars) turning left, as the right turning trucks are pictured)
Those can be represented with the same images as shown, just flipped, no need to unnecessary double image base

Sorry was meant as a joke =(.

 

[verygreen]

Sure, MobilEye EyeQ3 was capable of this but Tesla never intended to deploy such features except with AP2. I think it will generate headlines because the pictures create assumptions that reinforce existing narratives that Tesla will be deploying sign recognition and actions based on that recognition. AP1 was said to read signs but no promises were made that it would act on what it saw/recognized.

well, you do realize 7.1 release was AP1 only release, right? And all of this stuff was there already.
So they needed to retain it if only for AP1 compatibility.

 

[J1mbo]

Is there nothing in the APE, maybe M3 specific?

 

[verygreen]

there are no pictures on ape, but there are types of objects detected (or planned for, anyway).

Internally also a bicycle is recognized or at least is in the plans, but no picture for that on the IC (or they plan to just reuse the motorcycle icon for that?)

 

[lunitiks]

or they plan to just reuse the motorcycle icon for that?)

They do, even in AP1. Quite consistent too

 

[croman]

well, you do realize 7.1 release was AP1 only release, right? And all of this stuff was there already.
So they needed to retain it if only for AP1 compatibility.

But does AP1 even need the street sign images? I don't think it does anything with them or ever displays it (the human I've seen in some pedestrian detection test videos by Kman). It seems like something they thought they'd do but jettisoned when they couldn't.

I think the real question is why the stop sign image was showing in the shadow mode release of AP2 but hasn't appeared since. Was that Nvidia code that they somehow failed to hide through commenting? It is just intriguing that the stop sign image was so clearly part of that AP2 initial build but its been 7 months and nothing since. Throwing up a stop sign in the IC, if TeslaVision can do that, would be a great safety add on for everyone regardless of buying EAP/FSD. FSD, obviously, would act on that information but they show the speed limits for everyone, why not other signs?

 

[verygreen]

But does AP1 even need the street sign images? I don't think it does anything with them or ever displays it (the human I've seen in some pedestrian detection test videos by Kman). It seems like something they thought they'd do but jettisoned when they couldn't.

Well they added them. Why? I do not know. wanted to have them for the future or whatnot.
In fact on AP1 they also had a streetlight with green on, that's now gone.
Having an image like that means nothing other than "they decided to want that image", does not mean it's detected or otherwise used in any way. Tesla is notorious for leaving behind no longer used stuff in fimwares as it removes features or makes code changes leading to certain assets no longer being used. It's so annoying finding an intersting bit of code only to later discover it's no longer called from anywhere.

I think the real question is why the stop sign image was showing in the shadow mode release of AP2 but hasn't appeared since. Was that Nvidia code that they somehow failed to hide through commenting? It is just intriguing that the stop sign image was so clearly part of that AP2 initial build but its been 7 months and nothing since. Throwing up a stop sign in the IC, if TeslaVision can do that, would be a great safety add on for everyone regardless of buying EAP/FSD. FSD, obviously, would act on that information but they show the speed limits for everyone, why not other signs?

speed limits are not vision based at this time and I hope you don't depend on them because they are often incorrect.
Also if you are looking at IC instead of out of the windshield while driving, there's no amount of stuff to display that would improve your safety before FSD is fully available.

 

[Alketi]

verygreen, are you able to tell if AP2 is still only using the one forward camera?

 

[BigD0g]

verygreen, are you able to tell if AP2 is still only using the one forward camera?

It's already confirmed it's using 2 forward camera's at this time, the narrow and the normal field.

 

[lunitiks]

Yeah but snapshooting randomly with all cams, even when parked, as I understand it

 

[croman]

speed limits are not vision based at this time and I hope you don't depend on them because they are often incorrect.
Also if you are looking at IC instead of out of the windshield while driving, there's no amount of stuff to display that would improve your safety before FSD is fully available.

Luckily I'm not looking at my IC to figure out my environment but I do glance at it (who doesn't?). Clearly observing your surroundings is paramount but I don't see how putting it there can't at least help a little like the speed limit information or anything else on the IC (if it can do it). It sure would help with Tesla marketing which is why I'm puzzled its not there just for the sake of selling more cars with fat margins ($8k for EAP+FSD).

I am also aware that the speed limit info is not vision based nor is it accurate (but with this new TomTom database its differently wrong from the known errors using Garmin I believe).

I believe this switch is causing issues with AP2's geofencing.

On some streets I am able to (for small or large stretches) avoid the +5 limitation on AS on local roads. Further, my homelink GPS position has shifted and requires recalibration. Has their programming failed to account for the change in database?

The final bit of evidence that I can provide is that I can now, since 17.28.c5, auto-lane change on some local highways where I was previously restricted at a precise point where the interstate ends and the highway begins. So something is broken now. I say broken vs. liberated because the +5 cuts in and out but I can't detect a rhyme or reason other than the switch to TomTom.