Articles re Tesla—Fact or Fiction?

[winfield100]

seeking alpha is going nutz over Level 5? announcement
Tesla announces all vehicles to be loaded with self-driving hardware

there is 1 commenter whom has reasoned, rational, positive, comments in case anyone wants to see

"...(snip)...Tesla is currently - right now - building cars with the hardware to implement level 5 autonomy. Tesla will be the first carmaker to deliver cars with such hardware to customers. In that sense Tesla is clearly and obviously ahead.
Further more, Tesla cars are equipped for over-the-air updates with a system that actually works, in service, so they are positioned to install self driving software in these cars as it is developed - exactly as they have done with the hardware 1 cars with Autopilot. (snip)....................."

Randy Carlson's Comments | Seeking Alpha

 

[winfield100]

Paulo Santos is denying the self driving hardware
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4013466-tesla-just-jump-self-driving-shark
".....

• Tesla does not have self-driving technology. Indeed, for the present hardware solution, it doesn't even have automatic emergency braking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control yet. This is a fact.
• Tesla cannot know if it will have self-driving technology in a reasonable timeframe. Even the features it lost are not sure to be back by December. As for true self-driving, others have been developing cars for months - and for all we know, there are no existing Tesla self-driving prototypes roaming the streets even now......."
• mentioning the self driving video causes "Staged" "Faked" "streets roped off" , " (more or less) "Lets see how it does at 70mph with a tractor trailer crossing 100 ft away" , "..took 3 days to stage.."., denial it happened, comparisons to "giant transformers destroying cities" etc

 

[Electroman]

These are characters who are not just bears looking to make a quick buck. They honesty detest deeply anything Musk and Tesla.

 

[ggr]

Paulo Santos is denying the self driving hardware
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4013466-tesla-just-jump-self-driving-shark
".....

• Tesla does not have self-driving technology. Indeed, for the present hardware solution, it doesn't even have automatic emergency braking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control yet. This is a fact.
• Tesla cannot know if it will have self-driving technology in a reasonable timeframe. Even the features it lost are not sure to be back by December. As for true self-driving, others have been developing cars for months - and for all we know, there are no existing Tesla self-driving prototypes roaming the streets even now......."
• mentioning the self driving video causes "Staged" "Faked" "streets roped off" , " (more or less) "Lets see how it does at 70mph with a tractor trailer crossing 100 ft away" , "..took 3 days to stage.."., denial it happened, comparisons to "giant transformers destroying cities" etc

Santos also posted a hit piece on SpaceX yesterday. Not going to link to it.

 

[winfield100]

These are characters who are not just bears looking to make a quick buck. They honesty detest deeply anything Musk and Tesla.

they are still saying it was staged, faked, not real, no reporters, complaining about using Rolling Stones music (why would you want a (Tesla) red door painted black?
{i get excoriated for merely posting a link to the video}
{i cut my time down there about 98%}

 

[wdolson]

If the self driving code is not ready for prime time and the existing laws don't allow it to operate in a "live" environment, they would have to close streets to demo it. Even if the software was perfect, but the laws weren't in place to allow it, it would require a closed course. They would have to do the same thing to demonstrate a car with no mirrors on a city street or any other tech that is possible technologically, but isn't legal to use in a real world environment.

Paulo Santos claiming that the current hardware isn't up to "Tesla does not have self-driving technology. Indeed, for the present hardware solution, it doesn't even have automatic emergency braking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control yet. This is a fact." is funny. What did my car do the other day when a car stopped suddenly in front of me to make a left turn, or the emergency braking it did on the freeway a couple of months ago? And it sure seems to lane hold fairly well when I turn on AP...

 

[Electroman]

Like Trump those Seeking Alpha trolls are just playing to their gallery, hoping for desperate clicks, while Tesla is slowly and steadily increasing their tent.

 

[winfield100]

i have been having fun "poking" Paulo Santos on SA (since he said the video is "fake/staged/aliens......")
(being retired with lots of free time, even giving Paulo clicks can be fun)
they writhe and twist and squirm
here is a precis of his responses when I ask him to just admit the person drove from home to work, hands off the whole way

• I also saw a video of giant transformers destroying a city
• The cars DO NOT HAVE those features right now.
• Did you miss the dozens of self-driving videos on YouTube from the real car manufacturers dating back at least to 2010?"
• wildly overstated in the capacities it supposedly shows in the video.

• you saw a staged video which proves nothing, much like a transformers or independence day video proves nothing but the ability to put such video together

• Just look at the closing moments, this isn't about there being many Teslas, this is about it being ALL Teslas where the car goes, new models only, too.
• The video is obviously staged and cut. If not, it would be continuous. it's a promotional video.

• Tesla doesn't indeed have any relevant self-driving technology. The video was staged.

• winfield, by the standard you want to judge "self-driving" at, even your regular vehicle is self-driving for a few hundred meters in the highway if you just let go of the steering wheel

• You don't know if it drove the whole way. Aliens didn't arrive. Transformers didn't destroy a city. A video is just a video. You need third party confirmation.
• The video was very obviously staged as well.
• You're exhibiting the classic symptoms of a propaganda victim

• It didn't, it failed every time the video is cut, hence Tesla not showing the entire video

 

[Johan]

i have been having fun "poking" Paulo Santos on SA (since he said the video is "fake/staged/aliens......")
(being retired with lots of free time, even giving Paulo clicks can be fun)
they writhe and twist and squirm
here is a precis of his responses when I ask him to just admit the person drove from home to work, hands off the whole way

• I also saw a video of giant transformers destroying a city
• The cars DO NOT HAVE those features right now.
• Did you miss the dozens of self-driving videos on YouTube from the real car manufacturers dating back at least to 2010?"
• wildly overstated in the capacities it supposedly shows in the video.

• you saw a staged video which proves nothing, much like a transformers or independence day video proves nothing but the ability to put such video together

• Just look at the closing moments, this isn't about there being many Teslas, this is about it being ALL Teslas where the car goes, new models only, too.
• The video is obviously staged and cut. If not, it would be continuous. it's a promotional video.

• Tesla doesn't indeed have any relevant self-driving technology. The video was staged.

• winfield, by the standard you want to judge "self-driving" at, even your regular vehicle is self-driving for a few hundred meters in the highway if you just let go of the steering wheel

• You don't know if it drove the whole way. Aliens didn't arrive. Transformers didn't destroy a city. A video is just a video. You need third party confirmation.
• The video was very obviously staged as well.
• You're exhibiting the classic symptoms of a propaganda victim

• It didn't, it failed every time the video is cut, hence Tesla not showing the entire video

OK this man has a mental illness, obviously.

 

[GoTslaGo]

i have been having fun "poking" Paulo Santos on SA (since he said the video is "fake/staged/aliens......")
(being retired with lots of free time, even giving Paulo clicks can be fun)
they writhe and twist and squirm
here is a precis of his responses when I ask him to just admit the person drove from home to work, hands off the whole way

• I also saw a video of giant transformers destroying a city
• The cars DO NOT HAVE those features right now.
• Did you miss the dozens of self-driving videos on YouTube from the real car manufacturers dating back at least to 2010?"
• wildly overstated in the capacities it supposedly shows in the video.

• you saw a staged video which proves nothing, much like a transformers or independence day video proves nothing but the ability to put such video together

• Just look at the closing moments, this isn't about there being many Teslas, this is about it being ALL Teslas where the car goes, new models only, too.
• The video is obviously staged and cut. If not, it would be continuous. it's a promotional video.

• Tesla doesn't indeed have any relevant self-driving technology. The video was staged.

• winfield, by the standard you want to judge "self-driving" at, even your regular vehicle is self-driving for a few hundred meters in the highway if you just let go of the steering wheel

• You don't know if it drove the whole way. Aliens didn't arrive. Transformers didn't destroy a city. A video is just a video. You need third party confirmation.
• The video was very obviously staged as well.
• You're exhibiting the classic symptoms of a propaganda victim

• It didn't, it failed every time the video is cut, hence Tesla not showing the entire video

Wow. So every edit he considers a failure of the system. That 3 minute video/drive was probably at least 20-30+ minutes of real world (boring) driving at least. Probably more as I kept getting motion sickness from how rapidly things were moving.

I actually sat and watched one of the whole 50 minutes+ driving video by Carnegie Melon's autonomous vehicles. Won't do it again, and it will put you to sleep. Only reason why I did the crazy thing of watching the whole thing was because it was a bit of a trip down memory lane...

 

[winfield100]

OK this man has a mental illness, obviously.

he also has over 1,000 SA articles, which could be a nice revenue stream, so he HAS to defend his position, even if he cannot believe "his lying eyes"

 

[TMSE]

he also has over 1,000 SA articles, which could be a nice revenue stream, so he HAS to defend his position, even if he cannot believe "his lying eyes"

Paulo has written over 1350 articles on SA since he started there in 2011. At about 250 workdays per year, he has churned out, on average, more than one article per day since then. Obviously, at that rate quality suffers, or is even nonexistent.

 

[winfield100]

Paulo has written over 1350 articles on SA since he started there in 2011. At about 250 workdays per year, he has churned out, on average, more than one article per day since then. Obviously, at that rate quality suffers, or is even nonexistent.

i found it "interesting" how Paulo wiggled and writhed and squirmed rather than admit the model X drove itself from home to work

(It was somewhat non-subtle how the Rolling Stones sang "i see a (Tesla) red door and I want it painted (Model X) black")
an indirect homage

 

[larmor]

i found it "interesting" how Paulo wiggled and writhed and squirmed rather than admit the model X drove itself from home to work

(It was somewhat non-subtle how the Rolling Stones sang "i see a (Tesla) red door and I want it painted (Model X) black")
an indirect homage

Or may be a reference to original Model T, available only in black. And now all tesla's will have the hardware whether it is activated or not....

 

[winfield100]

an actual SA article that is positive to Autonomous vehicles, especially Tesla that also references the KPMG report from 2015 and changes in the insurance industry

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4014224-tesla-autonomous-driving-changes-everything

 

[Alketi]

The danger, in visiting Seeking Alpha, especially when reading the comments, is that one may think all shorts are insane.

I was debating, with three posters, who believed Tesla's self-driving video was faked (i.e. the car in the video was driven remotely by a human). Their proof was that the car drove "imperfectly" and that the navigation did not show the route.

Now, an engineer may look at both of these things and say that what we saw was an engineering prototype where the navigation is clearly not yet integrated with the main display and crossing the line in the parking lot is proof that their driving algorithms still need work. However, they not only drew the exact opposite conclusions, but attributed it to outright fraud, and were adamant on both counts.

The disbelief at what Tesla / Elon are trying to accomplish is so pervasive that the rank and file at SA literally dispute everything being said or shown. It's quite remarkable.

 

[winfield100]

The danger, in visiting Seeking Alpha, especially when reading the comments, is that one may think all shorts are insane.

I was debating, with three posters, who believed Tesla's self-driving video was faked (i.e. the car in the video was driven remotely by a human). Their proof was that the car drove "imperfectly" and that the navigation did not show the route.

Now, an engineer may look at both of these things and say that what we saw was an engineering prototype where the navigation is clearly not yet integrated with the main display and crossing the line in the parking lot is proof that their driving algorithms still need work. However, they not only drew the exact opposite conclusions, but attributed it to outright fraud, and were adamant on both counts.

The disbelief at what Tesla / Elon are trying to accomplish is so pervasive that the rank and file at SA literally dispute everything being said or shown. It's quite remarkable.

I have been knocked over with a feather
Paulo Santos ALMOST admitted the Tesla Model X drove itself, (except for when it didn't, because of the cuts in the video)
It does give a good map of the route tho

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4014279-tesla-self-driving-car-compares

 

[winfield100]

another interesting Seeking Alpha article by Randy Carlson, a TSLA long (good guy)
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4014413-time-tesla-shorts-smell-coffee
It points out that
"......Seeking Alpha commenter Model S Owner - It's Not That Great. This commenter who describes themselves as "Hedge Fund Manager, Developed International Markets, Dividend stock ideas & income" posted a first comment September 14, 2016, and as of this writing, has commented 1,879 times on Seeking Alpha articles, writing in excess of a quarter million words - that's one comment on average every 32 minutes, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Virtually all are negative comments directed toward Tesla. This is an example of exceptional effort, the commenter having written more words than John Steinbeck's "East of Eden" in just 41 days......"

Its amusing reading, the Seeking Alpha short guy is hysterical attacking back, flailing
(He did say he wont lose any money so he doesnt care, so i expect his investors will lose a LOT of money soon)

 

[AudubonB]

Winfield - you've made me break tradition and look into an SA article. That is some dedicated responding....although I'm going to assume he's set up some kind of bot-writer to craft those comments. I've got to see it for myself!

 

[Johan]

The danger, in visiting Seeking Alpha, especially when reading the comments, is that one may think all shorts are insane.

I was debating, with three posters, who believed Tesla's self-driving video was faked (i.e. the car in the video was driven remotely by a human). Their proof was that the car drove "imperfectly" and that the navigation did not show the route.

Now, an engineer may look at both of these things and say that what we saw was an engineering prototype where the navigation is clearly not yet integrated with the main display and crossing the line in the parking lot is proof that their driving algorithms still need work. However, they not only drew the exact opposite conclusions, but attributed it to outright fraud, and were adamant on both counts.

The disbelief at what Tesla / Elon are trying to accomplish is so pervasive that the rank and file at SA literally dispute everything being said or shown. It's quite remarkable.

I agree with your estimation of the cognitive biases on the part of these "fundamental shorts" as I like to call them (as opposed to agnostic, technical and clever shorts who just trade the spot stock price and the technicals). The fundamental shorts have a deep rooted disbelief and in stead of letting new data change their analysis they just keep moving the goal posts.