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Autonomous Car Progress

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by stopcrazypp, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    When will Tesla RADAR be able to reliably react to dangerous stationary obstacles appropriately?

    The article below seems to suggest unreliability is RADAR's nature so Tesla needs to add LIDAR to its suite:

    Why Tesla's Autopilot Can't See a Stopped Firetruck
     
    • Informative x 1
  2. boonedocks

    boonedocks Active Member

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  3. d21mike

    d21mike Member

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    I do not know but really hope soon.

    But the article also says that Elon does not agree that LIDAR is required.
     
  4. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    After Florida Autopilot fatal accident, Elon Musk believed that Tesla could tweak current RADAR "to create a coarse point, like LIDAR."

    Four months after that, Tesla blog reported that it did it and how its LIDAR-like RADAR works:

    "The second part consists of assembling those radar snapshots, which take place every tenth of a second, into a 3D "picture" of the world. It is hard to tell from a single frame whether an object is moving or stationary or to distinguish spurious reflections. By comparing several contiguous frames against vehicle velocity and expected path, the car can tell if something is real and assess the probability of collision."

    At that time, when asked if this could prevent the Florida Autopilot accident, Elon Musk replied:

    "These things cannot be said with absolute certainty, but yes, we believe it would have."

    It sounds like Tesla has claimed that it has solved the unreliability of RADAR problem by making it LIDAR-like without buying a real LIDAR, so of course, you are correct that Elon would not agree that LIDAR is required.
     
    • Informative x 2
  5. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

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    I wonder if the HW2.5 "Continental ("Radar Front Conti") with "primary" and "secondary" CAN-signalling to AP2.5ECU" is any better at this processing.

    It looks like it handles pedestrians better as an example of functionality: HW2.5 capabilities
     
  6. lunitiks

    lunitiks (ง ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)ง

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    Taking this from memory, but according to conti’s spec sheets it seems like the radar has two «FOVs», one short and one long range, with different attributes. Don’t remember where, but I speculated that the primary and secondary could be related to this somehow, perhaps it’s rigged so that both ‘beams’ can be used and processed simultaneously.

    I do not think the ‘secondary’ canbus is purely for redundancy. Wiring diagrams use the word ‘redunant’ in other aspects but not here. Anyway it would be nice to hear more about this from anyone with more automotive radar knowledge
     
    • Like x 1
  7. NerdUno

    NerdUno Member

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    No mention of avoiding stopped fire trucks so I guess Tesla's design is good to go. Oh wait...

    Tesla Autopilot is under federal scrutiny again after Model S crash
     
    • Funny x 2
  8. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    isn't it intriguing that the likes of @stopcrazypp who vowed that elon will have L4 in 2018 haven't shown their faces around here for months.
    but just a few months ago were parading around this very forum proclaiming that Elon will have L4 finished this year and how Tesla are years ahead of the competition in SDC. But now that the jig is up, they are a missing person case.

    The current state of AP today shows you exactly what elon tweet were, just another fairy tale. all that coarse radar for better lidar nonsense. I tried to warn you people but you won't listen.
     
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  9. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    You're still on about that?

    You're certainly not the only one who thought FSD was a farce. I considered it to be one of the two worst things to have happened in 2016. I know I'm not alone in this. Now you're more of Tesla skeptic than I am; I'll grant you that. So maybe there is something in you that compels you to continue on.

    I tend to be a skeptic of the entire idea of L4 driving. I'll be that way until cruise automation or some other company comes to Seattle where I can actually ride in one on a routine basis.

    You, and I might have different opinions/views but we both know why we're here. We're here because Tesla still has the most interesting thing going on. Sure they're massively late on EAP, and the whole FSD was basically vaporware. But, even small things like a rain detecting neural net is better than nothing for us tech obsessed people. Granted it's been pretty boring since the guy feeding us all that awesome info got pissed at his Tesla and had Tesla buy it back. That was a bit embarrassing I must admit. So maybe Tesla should focus a bit more on just making a solid car, and not worry so much about this EAP/FSD stuff.

    Getting back to the point cloud radar I really wonder if that entire idea was scrapped. On the Tesla blog they said they would initially roll it out in firmware 8.0, and then over the course of time they'd built a white list. Where things like over head signs, bridges, etc could be white listed. That way the car could stop for a stopped object in the road, and not signs and whatnot.

    Then they'd roll it out where it activated on this new data. But, we haven't heard anything official from Tesla since then. So we have no idea if it's activating on it.

    So it seems like they tried it, and concluded that it wouldn't work.

    It's also interesting that they switched Radar vendors, and so AP2.5 has a different radar than AP1/AP2.
     
  10. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Sigh...
    I thought you got killed after you failed to find the post:p, but you still like to keep calling me out for no reason. Reminder of our last interaction and the nth time I warned you:

    I'll say it again, either find the post or stop calling me out.
     
    • Funny x 1
  11. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    He's back: Rumor summary: Blind-spot cameras, Rain sensing, Level 3, Big battery, Interior/HUD #70

    The AP2 HW was actually sold to us Level 5 capable...

    Tesla's Full Self Driving level? #13
     
  12. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    @stopcrazypp

    Well, at the very least none of these things happened:

    Except for the last sentence of course. ;)
     
  13. zmarty

    zmarty Member

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    • Informative x 3
  14. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

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    Did you see the GM Cruise report --- lot of reasons described as "Other road user behaving poorly"
     
  15. EinSV

    EinSV Active Member

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    • Informative x 1
  16. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    There were multiple posts where you eluded to tesla providing FSD in 2018 barring regulations.
    It doesn't because tesla has failed to even implement something as simple was EAP.
    Its quite obvious that i'm right and you are wrong.

    Now this CA disengagement simply told us what we already know.
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    It seems you will never stop putting words in my mouth. Again, find the post or stop using me as a strawman to toot your own horn. If there were multiple posts it should be easy to find, much less one post. You had months to find it since our last interaction.
     
  18. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    • Like x 1
  19. zmarty

    zmarty Member

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    • Like x 2
  20. R.S

    R.S Active Member

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    We are at a pretty critical point right now, the car isn't as good as a human driver and doesn't learn nearly as fast, but it's good enough that the person behind the wheel gets distracted too easily.

    I guess a perfect human would have stepped in and avoided every one of those accidents, but just imagine spending 6k miles behind the wheel of an AV, in urban conditions. That's a lot of time where the car drives with no issues, so I guess you can't fault the test driver to not be able to react once things don't work out.

    And it will get even worse as the car gets better. I guess soon there will be no disengagements and just accidents.

    Of course if you have a disengagement every 3 miles, as Tesla had in 2016, there will be mostly disengagements and much fewer accidents, since the driver has to take over regularly.
     
    • Informative x 1

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