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AutoPilot - note to drivers and Consumer Reports

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You know, generally Consumer Reports is doing good stuff and trying to change things for the better. But then there's the odd time where they miss it and totally don't get what's going on, as if they were any other media outlet beating a dead horse (which turned out to be a stuffed prop, the real one had already autonomously avoided the scene and carried on). Usually I sit up and listen when they have something to say, but this wasn't one of those times. March on, Tesla, and I can't wait to see how far Autopilot can go on the current hardware!
 
Bogus logic from some posters. None of those safety devices allows a driver to take his eyes off the road, or stop driving and take a nap. How many people use cruise control in heavy traffic?

The choice is really simple. If you are a good driver, drive yourself. Your chance of accident is lower than averages.
If you are a pretty bad driver or don't know how to drive or keep your car within the lane, then let the AP drive you around, and hope it lowers your chance of accident. Then, you never improve and remain a bad driver for life :(

We just returned home after a 320 mile trip because of a sick puppy. We usually don't drive far but use our plane.
* Driving conscientiously saves a lot of people energy and preserves a higher level of alertness for short phases of active driving
* I hope my teenage sons will become comfortable to drive autopilot
* Driving on autopilot is less aggressive, predictable to others and hence safer.
* Similar to the autopilot in the plane one needs to preserve the basic driving skills and be able to take over.at any time

AP has already been subject to some dumbing down that will in effect kill people. There were long sections of road that were speed restricted to speed limit+5. This provides a choice of driving manual with the flow or on AP but triggering others to initiate passing maneuvers. Both options are less safe than driving with the flow on AP.

Us contributing to media hype really counterproductive. As responsible drivers it is important that we don't abuse the new tools but enable objective progress and reduce the number of people who get injured or killed each year. Let's be good citizens, support constructive change, and educate our fellow drivers on the benefits of the new tools. Let's resist the temptation to post "exciting click bait".

We as humans are simply not designed to perform well with repetitive monotonous tasks. In fact we are so bad that aircraft at higher altitudes are required to have a functional autopilot. In case of AP failure: "The pilot should notify ATC of the inability to meet RVSM performance requirements, consider declaring an emergency and request clearance to exit MNPS Airspace." In so many words: an operational AP is required for most long distance flights. What is also required is a pilot who can take over at any time. Most driving for the purpose of getting from A to B is pretty boring and given a choice I would prefer to tend to other tasks. Yes there are moments of joy using ludicrous mode to pass with a massive performance differential.

Let's use common sense and contribute for teslas to shine with a compelling safety record. This will preserve best our freedom to enjoy new productivity and safety tools and prevent being regulated possibly literately to death.
 
Given that Autopilot is even less capable than aircraft autopilots
There are plenty of aircraft autopilots that do nothing more than keep your elevation and heading. Some keep constant airspeed. You have to get to very fancy aircraft before you see autopilots that do auto navigation. I am now out of my league but I am not aware of any that do collision avoidance etc.
 
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Finally, there is the aircraft sense, where the autopilot is engaged 90% of the time. Aircraft autopilots present far fewer demands of the pilots when engaged than Autopilot does. For example, there is no beep that constantly requests pilots place their hands on the yolk, or restrict the aircraft speed. It disengages by itself very rarely. Most aircraft can even land themselves in poor visibility.

Given that Autopilot is even less capable than aircraft autopilots, we need a term which implies an even higher level of chaperoning. And the level of chaperoning must be high. Aircraft autopilots can cause even professional, trained pilots to become confused out and place their aircraft at risk when autopilot is assist not fully available, or disengages unexpectedly, as we've seen with Air France Flight 447 and Asiana Airlines Flight 217.
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You really need to learn more about aircraft autopilots. MOST autopilots will only bring the plane down to within 200' of the runway. Auto land requires expensive equipment at the airport. Even flying down to 200' is usually done on a CAT1 ILS which has expensive equipment at the airport. Furthermore, the entire approach is controlled in order to avoid traffic conflicts. The proper comparison would be a car on a smart highway with all cars under the supervision of a controller. Ok, before the pilots complain, I am talking IFR flight since that is where auto land is used.

Contrary to what many would think, you can pick up a new Cessna 182 Skylane and you will be handed the keys and given a hearty "Good luck."

The fact is that lane keep assist is pretty close to what a lot of autopilots do in its level of functionality. The main difference I have noticed is that an aircraft autopilot makes a very loud sound when it disconnects so that there is no question as to whether it has control of the plane.

I restricted my comments to lane keep assist because the closes to automatic emergency braking is TCAS which gives a verbal resolution at best.
 
With the recent allegations by some Tesla drivers on the failure of Autopilot on their cars and the media jumping on those incidents....

I'm not new to online forums, but with TMC at least, I can't seem to find how to "Like" this post, LOL. Also, if the following has been said already, apologies in advance: The Brain Trust at Tesla needs to bring [TMC handle] xkwizit onboard in some capacity down the road (pardon the pun).
 
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I'm not new to online forums, but with TMC at least, I can't seem to find how to "Like" this post, LOL. Also, if the following has been said already, apologies in advance: The Brain Trust at Tesla needs to bring [TMC handle] xkwizit onboard in some capacity down the road (pardon the pun).

You're new to TMC. Post some more then after a certain amount (I don't know how many), you'll be able to rate and "like". You can go back and "like" it after you have enough posts.
 
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We as humans are simply not designed to perform well with repetitive monotonous tasks. ...
Let's use common sense and contribute for teslas to shine with a compelling safety record. This will preserve best our freedom to enjoy new productivity and safety tools and prevent being regulated possibly literately to death.

Educating fellow drivers is all good. However, I would add educating Tesla with great feedback on real-life human behaviour can be equally valuable. We should encourage that too.

For example, if Auto-Pilot suffers from Mode Confusion (is it on or off? did it just disengage?) for some users, some of the time, it would seem plausible that improvements to Auto-Pilot could be useful too for the goal of safer roads.

Mode Confusion has caused airplane crashes too and resulted in airplane auto pilot changes in the past.

Humans are humans. Education goes only so far if the user-interface isn't intuitive enough.
 
i wonder if tesla had named the feature 'copilot' instead of 'autopilot'; hence implying that the driver is ultimately responsible for driving safety and the electronics are there as a backup, there would be alot less heat taken. it's discouraging to see innovations like this gets bashed on in its infancy by mainstream media.
 
i wonder if tesla had named the feature 'copilot' instead of 'autopilot'; hence implying that the driver is ultimately responsible for driving safety and the electronics are there as a backup, there would be alot less heat taken. it's discouraging to see innovations like this gets bashed on in its infancy by mainstream media.

I understand the copilot comment but as a pilot I find it funny. You can leave the cockpit if the copilot is at the controls. You can't if there is no other pilot even if autopilot is on. In flying an autopilot is much more restrictive than a copilot. :)
 
With the recent allegations by some Tesla drivers on the failure of Autopilot on their cars and the media jumping on those incidents, this is a quick primer for every Tesla driver (including spouses, siblings, sons and daughters) and Laura MacCleery, VP of Consumer Policy and Mobilization for Consumer Reports:

Autopilot by definition is a system that is used to control the trajectory of a vehicle (aircraft, boat, spacecraft, motor vehicle) without constant "hands-on" control by a human operator. The level of control that an autopilot can perform varies even within aircrafts that are capable of using autopilots. However, autopilot should not be confused with autonomous. An autonomous driving vehicle does not need human intervention. It can navigate without human input solely based on sensing its environment.

Tesla's autopilot is a developing suite of features that meets NHTSA's level 2 unlike Google's car that meets the level 3 designation. As Elon Musk has said many times, Tesla's autopilot represents baby steps towards achieving full autonomy.

As of writing this note, Tesla's autopilot allows you to maintain lane, change lanes, and park the car. While you should keep your hands on the steering wheel, when driving on a straight road with minimal traffic, you may take off your hands from time to time to relax your arms. However, when encountering curves, construction zones, roads that don't have clear lane markings, busy traffic, inclement weather such as rain or snow, and even direct bright sun, you should keep your hand on the steering wheel and be ready to take control if needed.

Remember, when you are in an aircraft and if the pilot were to put the aircraft in autopilot mode, what would you expect them to do. I believe you wouldn't want them to be roaming the aisles and talking to passengers leaving the flight control to the computer. It's the same with your car on autopilot.

And definitely DO NOT:
a) Go to sleep
b) Read any kind of literature
c) Play games
d) Watch anything other than the road and the dash/screen on your car
e) Get so engrossed in conversation with other passengers in the car or on the phone that you are not aware of road conditions.

Did you notice that all of the above also apply to driving any vehicle? I hope you get the point - it is NOT AN AUTONOMOUS vehicle so don't act like you are driving one. There is NO autonomous vehicle authorized on public roads at this time in any part of the world. Once again, autopilot is NOT autonomous. Autopilot still requires you - it will assist you but doesn't replace you.

I am sure many of you must be questioning then why have the AutoPilot. After putting over 18,000 miles on my car with autopilot, here are the advantages:
1. It does really well compared to a human driver for keeping the center of the lane.
2. The few minutes you get to relax your arms go a long way in reducing fatigue especially on long road trips.
3. Since you can relax out of a fixed body posture and less fatiguu, it helps the driver to remain more alert and less likely to doze off.
4. The ultrasonic sensors and the radar are quicker than humans to detect if another vehicle is getting into your lane and slow down your car. They also warn you instantly if you need to take over control and avoid a crash.

Ms. MacCleery/Consumer Reports - the Tesla owners who paid for the AP technology are NOT guinea pigs. Guinea pigs don't fork out $2500 to be part of an experiment. When we purchase the AP option and then subsequently enable it (Tesla makes the driver enable it from the Settings), we take responsibility of using this developing technology.

For your four recommendations, the only one I agree is about consumer education. The other three:
a) Disable autosteer till hands on wheel are required - definitely NOT. Not only is it a huge step backwards towards achieving autonomous driving, it defeats the very purpose of reducing driver fatigue. The current version gives just about sufficient time to relax your posture and reduce fatigue.
b) Stop referring to as Autopilot - It meets the current widely used concept of autopilot and changing the name is not going to make it safer. People will still call it AutoPilot no matter what Tesla renames it too.
c) No more beta releases - test within the lab. Do you know of any automotive lab that emulates every single road condition? Is it even possible to create one?? Google has been trying to collect real life data from its own Level 3 cars on public roads. However, that approach has been a slow process, does not collect sufficient data and delays the significant advantages of autonomous driving. The practice of using beta testers from public is prevalent amongst several industries including healthcare. If consumers are willing to pay Tesla or anyone else to pay for emerging technologies, then don't brute force your way and cripple their rights.

My plea to regulatory bodies and insurance companies:
1. Implement laws that support emerging technologies not cripple them.
2. Improve and standardize our roads - make our roads smarter.
3. Provide incentives for drivers and vehicles that use emerging technologies such as Autopilot as they reduce accidents and improve safety.

And to my fellow Tesla drivers - educate other drivers in your household about autopilot and help them use it responsibly. DRIVE RESPONSIBLY AND SAFE WITH AP!!

And finally back to Consumer Reports and other media - STOP MISLEADING THE PUBLIC - REPORT ON FACTS AND DON'T MISUSE STATISTICS TO PROVE A POINT!!!

Disclaimer: I do not own Tesla stock nor do I short/long Tesla stock at the time of writing. I do own Tesla vehicles with AP enabled and my only interest in writing this post is to promote autonomous driving. You have my permission to reproduce the above post outside of this forum in its entirety. However, if you want to publish parts of it, please contact me for permission.
Yeah. Well, that pretty much covers it! Excellent job. Thank you very much.
 
Why?, I am not buying a gun for God's sake.

I agree but unfortunately the media is treating it as if we are and there are people out there who don't take their responsibility of the road seriously and damage the reputation of the system. Just was thinking of a fool proof removal of liability for Tesla. Basically if you've been forced to watch a short instructional video once and keep the AP feature safe guarded from potential irresponsible drivers (ie. Teens) with a password then it shows the manufacturer going above and beyond. Similar to passwords on pay-to-play apps on the app store.

Again, I heavily stress that I do not think it should be necessary but we don't control the mainstream.
 
@Purralator - welcome to the forum and we will welcome your dad too. There's definitely some excellent info sharing on this forum with real life advice on both making best use of your Tesla as well as dealing with any issues.

And yes, it gets toasty in here from time to time with some non-owners and others with financial motives trying to make headlines but if you can get past that..it's an excellent community.

PS: Is your screen name a twist on the good old oil filter company Purolator?

Thank you for the welcome!

It's just a nick name friends gave me based off Purolator which to me (in Canada) is a private sector mail courier haha. My names Pierre and the first iteration was Purr then Purralator haha
 
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I agree but unfortunately the media is treating it as if we are and there are people out there who don't take their responsibility of the road seriously and damage the reputation of the system. Just was thinking of a fool proof removal of liability for Tesla. Basically if you've been forced to watch a short instructional video once and keep the AP feature safe guarded from potential irresponsible drivers (ie. Teens) with a password then it shows the manufacturer going above and beyond. Similar to passwords on pay-to-play apps on the app store.

Again, I heavily stress that I do not think it should be necessary but we don't control the mainstream.
Uhm... 'forced'? One of the things that people really like about the 'Tesla Experience' is not having to deal with a screen full of legalese every time they start the car. A mandatory instructional -- anything -- when you just want to get into the car you've been waiting for is pretty much the very last thing anyone wants to deal with... And c'mon, Man! Making such prudent, responsible, helpful suggestions about things of this sort is kind of depressing.

Fools are apparently very resourceful at finding ways to hurt themselves, and then finding someone else to blame, and thereby, sue over it. Tesla Motors will be fine when it comes to those guys, don't worry about it.

Oh, and the use of the phrase "I do not think" is ill-advised in any capacity around here. Ample warning, and stuff.

Don't call me Prudence, or Shirley, or late for dinner.
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Non tesla fatality yesterday..Same intersection where Joshua Brown was killed: U.S. Alternate 27 at Northeast 140th Court

A Williston woman was killed Friday night in Levy County when she pulled in front of a pickup truck while turning, according to the Florida Highway Patrol.

The crash happened at 8:10 p.m. on U.S. Alternate 27 at Northeast 140th Court. Barrett was driving a 2001 Ford SUV east on 140th Court while Colton Lee Johnston, 23, of Fort McCoy, was driving a 2005 Dodge Ram pulling a livestock trailer south of U.S. Alternate 27.

Barrett turned onto the road into Johnston’s path, the release said. Johnston swerved to try to avoid the collision but struck the left side Barrett’s SUV. Johnston had minor injuries.
 
Uhm... 'forced'? One of the things that people really like about the 'Tesla Experience' is not having to deal with a screen full of legalese every time they start the car. A mandatory instructional -- anything -- when you just want to get into the car you've been waiting for is pretty much the very last thing anyone wants to deal with... And c'mon, Man! Making such prudent, responsible, helpful suggestions about things of this sort is kind of depressing.

Fools are apparently very resourceful at finding ways to hurt themselves, and then finding someone else to blame, and thereby, sue over it. Tesla Motors will be fine when it comes to those guys, don't worry about it.

Oh, and the use of the phrase "I do not think" is ill-advised in any capacity around here. Ample warning, and stuff.

Don't call me Prudence, or Shirley, or late for dinner.
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Please read before posting. I said forced to watch it ONCE in the entire drivers life time. If/when you have kids and your teenage son flicks on AP in ternenchal down pour at 11pm on a single lane hwy before having the AP talk with you and gets into an accident I'm betting you'll wish there was a password. Not reading peoples posts before responding is also ill advised.

What's with these overly sensitive people on here? I made a suggestion that I said from the beginning should not be necessary and have explained i love AP in its current form but suddenly I'm under fire for it. If you don't agree with me then ignore it and move on.
 
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Please read before posting. I said forced to watch it ONCE in the entire drivers life time. If/when you have kids and your teenage son flicks on AP in ternenchal down pour at 11pm on a single lane hwy before having the AP talk with you and gets into an accident I'm betting you'll wish there was a password. Not reading peoples posts before responding is also ill advised.

What's with these overly sensitive people on here? I made a suggestion that I said from the beginning should not be necessary and have explained i love AP in its current form but suddenly I'm under fire for it. FFS if you don't agree with me then ignore it and move on, what's with the insults? Come on already
Hey Purr @Purralator - don't worry about the crazy fans..some are more passionate than others and trigger ready...fortunately the mods @AnOutsider @doug here are doing a great job and weed out snippy threads and have banished a few posters whose only agenda was spreading vitriol and making every thread useless.
 
AP has been enabled for almost a year now, but the website still advertises the feature with no mention of "beta" or "keep both hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any moment". Shouldn't the website mention those critical facts? The OP mentions clearly that AP is safe when used responsibly, but no description of this "its not autonomous, its just auto-pilot" is made clear on the Tesla sales website.

I think Tesla should either disable AP or advertise it with the words "Keep Both Hands On The Wheel And Be Ready To Take Over At Any Moment" in bold and prominently displayed on the website.