Redmiata98
Member
Gwgan, that would result in the car slowing to 37mph in a 60 zone if read as kilometers! It might work in Canada because the 70 there would equal 112 mph.
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AutoPilot speed restrictions...what do you think
- Thread starter boonedocks
- Start date
I agree with you, but Youtube is filled with countless examples of users who don't take that approach, and there is a very public fatal accident where a person who also didn't take that approach (as he documented/posted to Youtube) was killed in exactly this situation.
Nope -- you are misunderstanding. With TACC (Cruise control), the car is ONLY maintaining speed and monitoring for traffic directly in front of you which might be going slower (causing it to decelerate to the lower speed to match traffic speed). It will NOT respond to traffic that is not directly in front of you in your lane and will not make any maneuver via steering to avoid traffic in front of you or respond to curves in the road. With AP1, it IS monitoring for traffic in lanes around you and making steering decisions all the time to try and stay in its lane (unless you make the decision to change lanes via the turn signal stalk). It is a higher level of automation controlling both speed and direction (TACC only controls speed). In aviation terms, one would be autothrottles, the other would be a single axis autopilot. In the scenario we are discussing (AP1.0) drivers have an expectation that the car is going to do more than just maintain speed or slow down if the traffic ahead of it slows down. They are already using it in a manner which exceeds it's technical limits. As such (and I believe as Tesla has gathered more data and has a better understanding of the technical limits of the hardware during a BETA test), Tesla has apparently made a determination that the AP mode should not be used when on a non-divided/non-limited access road.
As I said, my explanation/example was only a POSSIBLE explanation as to why Tesla made the decision and determined it was safe to go above the speed limit on a divided/limited access highway and not to go above the speed limit on roads that don't meet that condition. I am NOT saying that the example/theory I offered was correct (I have no inside knowledge), simply to point out that there might be a very good technical reason why Tesla has now imposed the restriction. A lot of people on this thread have said Tesla is doing this to screw owners over (or words to that effect). Personally I don't believe that's true. Given Elon's demonstrated history of pushing the envelope of technology in what he does (witness a lot of the history of both Tesla and SpaceX), I think he's pushing the engineers to lean as far forward as possible. To me, the fact a restriction has now been imposed means:
(1) Tesla was MADE to do this by the government (unlikely given the lack of public discourse about it) or
(2) Tesla determined there was a use case/scenario they had not anticipated that the system can't adequately handle AND they can't mitigate it through new software alone (or haven't solved it yet but may still be working on it) AND the engineers convinced ELON that the restriction was necessary AND Elon personally agreed with it and issued the direction to make the change.
My suspicion (though I have no proof) is that not a single change gets issued to the software without Elon knowing about it.
I also agree that greater transparency in WHY the change was made would have eliminated a lot of this angst among the user community. Alas, I have no direct line to Elon and he has not asked me for my opinion or advice on how he runs Tesla, SpaceX, Solar City or any other company he's associated with.....despite the fact:
"No one has more resilience
Or matches my practical tactical brilliance!"
- Hamilton reference for all the readers out there....
Good summary. However, when I find I am on one side of an issue, pushing harder than the other side often results in getting my preferred result. I understand why some people empathize with Tesla's position, but that isn't going to get this resolved in a way that is satisfactory to me. Outrage, threats, and publicly may or may not. Some of us don't make decisions based on avoiding conflict at all costs.
For the shrinking violets that will accept whatever Tesla provides, it makes no difference. They bought the car because it's green / EV, and it's still much nice than their previous Prius.
But when you sell $100k cars, your are going to end up with a high percentage of customers who can and will push very hard to get what they want. (That's how they got the $100k for the car
And certainly, the I-want-it-all-and-i-want-it-now position is perfectly valid.
But it pre-supposes that evolving technology can develop in a direction which matches the understanding of the wealthy and in a time-frame which suits their schedule.
Shrinking violet? Yup, I guess that includes me
I wouldn't have the cojones to bet $100k+ on a product which I know is in a constant state of development.
Kudos.
I agree that seeing logs would be very useful. I can only say that I immediately checked what car showed to me and it did still see speed limit 90km/h. And yes, autosteer was on.
+1 @scottf200. Tesla is at a point where it will have to pick and choose one. If obeying the law is to obey it to the letter then A/P speed limits should be locked in at the posted speed limit. IMO until we are not required to hold the steering wheel we should be able to set AP to any reasonable speed i.e. +5 to +10 as an example. After all Tesla will not accept responsibility for any traffic citations whether using AP or not.
JohnnyG
Weee!
Seeing that I can not pull log, nor the vast majority of the people here, you are going to have to take our word for it. Maybe each of us individually have no credit in your eyes, but as a collective who have all experienced the exact same thing, in different cars, in different parts of the country, statistically has some weight.
I can absolutely state that AP was engaged (human extremities not in contact with vehicle controls), the vehicle did not disclose on the IC that it had detected any other speed (it displayed 70 the whole time), it had an already established speed limit via the sign it had detected a couple miles earlier (also, when it hasn't detected a sign yet, the IC is blank), there were no other vehicles within close proximity, nothing up ahead had made any drastic changes.
The warning states that autosteer has been restricted to 50, but with no validation as to why. If it was that the car saw something we didn't and was reacting to it, then there wouldn't be a speed restriction warning pop up. It would react and resume. If the car *thinks* it saw something (as many of you like to excuse), then this is still a bug in the program logic, as it never did that before, and it shouldn't now.
I love Tesla, and I love my car, but this is pure objective logic here people, not a finger pointing game.
I drove a loaner autopilot car recently. It got a software update while I had it that restricted autopilot speeds. Even on a divided not-a-highway it restricted speeds to the speed limit. The problem was, everyone else was driving faster, and my car was a rolling roadblock. I turned it off - it was useless.
Adaptive cruise worked fine though.
Adaptive cruise worked fine though.
Statistically you would need a sample size of about 400 randomly selected Model S owners (out of a population of 150,000 Model S vehicles on the road) in order to have 95% probability that the reported response rate in the population is accurate to within 5% of the response rate of the sample. I read these forums pretty frequently (i.e. every 5 minutes 12 hours a day
) and haven't seen anywhere near 400 different people report on this issue (much less 400 randomly selected people).
JohnnyG
Weee!
You would also need all 150,000 Model S vehicle owners to be active members on these forums for your assessment to be valid.Statistically you would need a sample size of about 400 randomly selected Model S owners (out of a population of 150,000 Model S vehicles on the road) in order to have 95% probability that the reported response rate in the population is accurate to within 5% of the response rate of the sample. I read these forums pretty frequently (i.e. every 5 minutes 12 hours a day
How do you figure that? The population is the entire fleet of Model S vehicles. The portion of those that are owned by members on these forums is meaningless when you are talking about statistical analysis.
If anything it skews the results even more as you've got the bias of the type of Model S owner that would join a discussion forum and the further bias of the type of owner that would post about an issue like this. Any statistical analysis based solely on issue reports from an internet forum are worthless (from a statistical perspective). They certainly have anecdotal value, but not statistical value.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I agree.
The nags are obnoxious and actually cause me to have worse driving since I constantly have to push the steering wheel to get them to stop. I keep my hands on the wheel curled around the wheel but the car doesn't sense this as hands on the wheel so I have to constantly jerk the wheel.
This latest change limiting the speed to the posted speed limit has made autopilot useless since traffic does not travel at the speed limit and people behind get antsy and upset. Also, the speedometer on the Tesla (like all cars) is calibrated to post several miles an hour above the actual speed so when it says 35 mph, I'm actually going about 32 mph. (This has been verified by multiple passes through the CHP radar signs that they have stationed on secondary roads.)
This is just stupid. AP is useless now.
JohnnyG
Weee!
Okay, so first of all, you just proved my point about the validity of your first assessment.
Regardless, the point being made is that, of the few owners which are members here, and of those the few that post, and of those the few that saw this thread, there are multiple people experiencing the identical scenario. That holds some value against those that keep chiming in that the car saw some something which we didn't, and all is well in the world. Repeating random excuses about speed limit signs and such, which we've been very specific to state was not the case. It's one thing to help others troubleshoot, it's another to make excuses and discredit people's first-hand experiences which they are trying to share.
Tesla is phenomenal, but they are not perfect. When an issue is identified, people collaborate to validate. It doesn't help to validate and resolve an issue when people with no experience in the matter try to discredit or downplay the issue. Enough said...
rpo
Member
I can confirm it IS limiting on divided highways. The nearest one to my home is now limited to 40 MPH or 45 MPH despite the speed limit being 45-50 (signed and on the display), and everyone is going 60. I cannot use autopilot here anymore because I'd be going WAY too slow. On regular surface streets, the limitation does not bother me much, but on divided highways it is a problem.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I don't think we can as of yet, however there is a guy in this forum that has figured it out. He created an app in that one of the newer features is the ability to see the log data.
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