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Battery Replaced Under Warranty - 30+ miles below rated range
- Thread starter robertmanning
- Start date
Sunshine State
Automotive Enthusiast
But if under warranty they fix it right for free, not put in an old timing chain or used bolts back in the car.
That is very interesting. Then what are we supposed to base our purchases on? If a 90kWh battery only has a capacity of 73kWh, then what battery do we buy?
You just reminded me that I have the STATS app. I've had it since I bought the car!Really patting myself on the back now for years of $5 / month to Teslafi
I'm seeing that with everyone, the numbers aren't adding up. I'm trying to get the word out and answers just like everyone else and this is a lot of data to mull through.
I will say that when my car says 173 miles at 100% and I drive 40 miles, the car says 133 miles give or take a mile. The numbers listed on the MCU are matching my real world driving.
So I spoke to the Tesla Service Center Manager at the Orland/Eatonville Service Center. When I questioned him about the current battery warranty he said that he didn't know about it. When I asked what number the current warranty was based, he said that Tesla didn't have a number. I recorded the conversation. The entire conversation is unbelievable and you can skip right to it at 4:20 in the video. Feel free to share.
Interesting situation. You probably got a deficient battery. The rep gave you terrible answers. However, you do need to drive the car to determine the actual range. Then, if that is less than it should be, you can pin down Tesla with the fact that your actual achieved range is less than it should be, at the same wh/mile. And this deficiency is inconsistent with the terms of the warranty. If you complain about less kwh capacity or less displayed range, they will squirm out of that by saying that those are just calculated values. Which they are. One thing that you should know is that the 60kwh battery is actually a 75 kwh battery that is software limited to 60 kwh.
My 90 kwh battery only has 72 kwh of usable capacity. When new the "90 kwh" batteries had a usable capacity in the low 80's. And that would be fine. My car was a dealer demo for the first 6 months of its life, early 2016. Showroom cars (at that time) were always charged up to 100% to show off the maximum displayed range. I believe that this resulted in a degraded battery by the time I got it. Tesla sold me the car with a brand new warranty. So I was pretty disappointed that the car had lost 30% of its range with only 7,500 miles on it. I was able to trace the lost range to a 15% loss of battery capacity and another 15% lost by never being able to get close to the rated wh/mile. I took one 200 mile trip with the specific purpose of maximizing range. Just to see. The temperature was 65-70. My speed was modest. I avoided any hard accelerations. I minimized braking. "Rated Range" on full charge was 280 miles. I achieved a range of 220 miles (extrapolating the last few percent of charge down to 0). Under normal driving my 280 mile car got me 200 miles. (I think that is down to about 190 miles now, a few years later)
Another thing that really bothers me is that despite the battery degradation, the car continues to display a rated range that is nearly that of a brand new car (new cars display 280-285 miles. Mine still displays 275-280). I doubt that my car is the only one with this issue of displayed range concealing significant battery degradation.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
I would not agree that one has to drive the car.
Tesla should furnish a car that meets the warranty requirements.
If Tesla says the battery meets requirements, then they should furnish a report showing the actual capacity (I know they won't, but...)
In any event, it is known what the new, nominal capacity is, and it can be seen from the CAN bus what the current, nominal capacity is. If it is less than 30% of new (For older S60, IIRC) or less than when the battery failed, it does not meet requirements.
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To make a good argument to Tesla that the battery is inadequate, you need a more substantive complaint than simply the display of range is low. That display of range could be way off (It sure is on my car).
The real bottom line is achievable range. In a way, it really is all you care about. We have to refer to battery degradation only to counter the argument that we are not achieving the expected range due to driving style (too many wh/mi). Measurement of battery capacity is not effected by wh/mile. That is why I suggested, do a measure of real range. You don't have to drive from 100% to 0%. Just use some large portion of the battery and extrapolate. For example if you drive from 90% down to 20%, that is 70% of the battery. If that much battery got you 150 miles, then your full charge range is 150/0.7. That would be 214 miles of full charge range. Use the longest trip that you can for a more accurate number. And make sure that your wh/mile is close to what you did in the past for a good comparison.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
That is completely unacceptable, I would go straight to a lawer, get copies of the warranty and quote that clause in your complaint. Tesla continues to make excuses for honoring warranties.
I will not buy another Tesla and I know quite a few who dumped their Model S cars and are going Audi e-Tron. My client just got one. He is able to achieve over 250 miles of range even though the car is EPA rated at 204 miles. The quality is off the hook compared to Tesla and the interior bits are top notch. He doesn't road trip and couldn't care less about Superchargers.
It's nice to see a car manufacturer undersell its numbers for a change. Tesla used to do that back in 2013-2015, before it got greedy and decided to screw its loyal customers.
Can you find horror stories of any automotive brand replacing your gas tank with a smaller one, or replacing your engine with a lesser performing one? That's what we're discussing here. Keep it apples to apples, please. While we are at it, any examples of other brands removing features via software for which a customer paid? Please share your examples.
Did any of those result in reduction of performance, removal of features that were paid for, or a reduction in the size of the gas tank? If not, these examples are meaningless. We aren't talking about regular service items here, clearly.
If they try to argue this, point them to their own FAQs here: Range Tips
To wit:
Why is my displayed estimated range decreasing faster than miles driven?
Displayed range is based on regulating agency certification (EPA) and is not adapted based on driving pattern. Your driving behaviors and environmental conditions can impact your car's efficiency, and therefore its range. To see estimated range based on personalized energy consumption, open the Energy app.
Displayed range is based on regulating agency certification (EPA) and is not adapted based on driving pattern. Your driving behaviors and environmental conditions can impact your car's efficiency, and therefore its range. To see estimated range based on personalized energy consumption, open the Energy app.
According to the #batterygate thread and resulting class action lawsuit, there is evidence of Tesla tampering with the Wh/mi constant. According to the lawsuit, Tesla is reducing this constant over time in order to conceal accelerated capacity degradation. There's a lot of crap that's going to hit the fan in the next year over Tesla's shady practices and it's going to shake the company to its foundation. Just wait for it.
It’s a bit premature to think the etron will have no battery issues. Especially with all that high speed charging they claim to achieve. Again.....waaaaaaay too early to be celebrating IMO.
Would like to know at what speeds your etron examples are. I typically compare my miles driven at the end of my trip to the initial miles available at 80%. When I drive 65 and don’t stomp on the accelerator, I get pretty close to rated range and sometimes better if weather is good. And this is on a Jan 2017 S90D with 45k miles.
I have been in the etron and iPace. The etron’s interior is better than the ipace but not as grandiose as you make it out to be, IMO. Especially with that clunkier interface. But to each their own.
What I find odd is that some people say they will never buy another Tesla because of their degredation, etc. But yet they will buy the competition that barely can meet the DEGRADED Tesla. And as far as the slower supercharging speeds, that is unfortunate. I’ll be curious to see how fragged the etron battery gets charging at 350kw. Let’s see where things are with those “perfect” etrons and ipaces in a few years.
As far as removing features that people paid for, I haven’t had anything removed from mine. And when I sell my car privately to the next private buyer, they too will keep the FSD and supercharging for while they own the car. If it gets sold to a reseller, all bets are off.
Even though I am knocking eTron and iPace, I’m still glad they are there and that people are buying them too. At least they aren’t gas cars. But I have experienced all 3 and even with the complaints people have had about Tesla, I still find them more enjoyable to drive, interface and features. IMO. But if doing so creates more competition for Tesla to up their game and do better, then great! We all benefit. I just get tired of the, “OMG, the etron and iPace is so perfect” nonsense. They are not. And time will show that. Do I wish they were? Of course! But let’s be real, people.
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There’s an extremely good chance this will be yet another nothingburger. But it will be interesting to watch this play out.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
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