BeastMode13's Dual Purpose P3D Build Journey

[Lucky13]

@MasterC17 @beastmode13 I really want to step up to some bigger brakes but honestly I have yet to have any serious issues with my MPP set up on the base model calipers.
I do need to get my rotors lathed but that's user error for not bedding the pads properly(have run them like this thru numerous track days and many street miles). Also my bleeder valves seem to leak a little no matter how tight I turn them.
I have run the car very hard thru most of all of California tracks and still can't justify spending the money. Even though I really want to.
Please don't misunderstand I have had some brake fade but never anything scary, maybe just not pushing hard enough.
I guess in the end I am just super jelly of your brake kits..lol

 

[destructure00]

Also my bleeder valves seem to leak a little no matter how tight I turn them.

I'd bet this is residual fluid left in the valve expanding, not an actual leak. I had the same issue and thought. Now I get brake cleaner, then compressed air and clean/blow the valves out after closing them and no more leaking.

I think it was a few of the people in this thread who suggested it, and they were right..

 

[beastmode13]

@

I'd bet this is residual fluid left in the valve expanding, not an actual leak. I had the same issue and thought. Now I get brake cleaner, then compressed air and clean/blow the valves out after closing them and no more leaking.

I think it was a few of the people in this thread who suggested it, and they were right..

@Lucky13
That’s right. There is residue fluid in the value of the same volume of the valve passage. This amount will seep out when brake caliper are heated. The torque value for the valve is 150in/lb, inch, not foot. If the leak is more than the residue, most likely the seating surface of the valve or caliper is dirty. You can either back out the valve by a full turn during the next bleed to see if the dirt can be flushed out. Or complete remove the valve and clean the seating surface of valve and caliper. Or buy my RB BBK on sale and get rid of that whimpy stock setup. It doesn’t matter how the stock setup is working for you. It’s about Flex . Cruising down the boulevard with a 380. .

Joking aside. More power to you that stock brake system is working for you. @mcbarnet007 is totally stock aside from pads and fluid. @isaax is stock caliper with MPP rotor. So stock can work. I have always had aftermarket BBK in the cars I track. I have had Brembo, Wilwood, Baer Racing in previous cars prior to P3D. I have a particular feel I’m going after with my brake setup. Everyone has different driving style and preferences, one setup isn’t going to work for everyone. Plus with so many white 3 around NorCal, it’s cool to celebrate diversity in car setup. Either on the street or at the track.

 

[Lucky13]

just did the front bushings. Dowel pins went in smooth and no problems. All said it probably took me 2hours but I took my time. I would say this is a fairly easy job if you have the right tools. Also packed up my brakes to send out to giro disc. During this down time going to do chrome delete and install my front lip. Don't mind the car it's filthy, it felt very nice to work on car and get my mind off all this covid crap. Sorry for jacking your thread @beastmode13 Lol

 

[MountainPass]

just did the front bushings. Dowel pins went in smooth and no problems. All said it probably took me 2hours but I took my time. I would say this is a fairly easy job if you have the right tools. Also packed up my brakes to send out to giro disc. During this down time going to do chrome delete and install my front lip. Don't mind the car it's filthy, it felt very nice to work on car and get my mind off all this covid crap. Sorry for jacking your thread @beastmode13 Lol
View attachment 529946

Nice work man!

 

[Lucky13]

So how is it going with the brakes? Any chance to put them thru some paces?

 

[Lunares]

Are the AP brakes for both front and rear? Is there really a need for the heat dissipation in the rear brakes?

or would stopping force asymmetry be too much if you had the AP kit up front, stock in rear

 

[MasterC17]

Are the AP brakes for both front and rear? Is there really a need for the heat dissipation in the rear brakes?

or would stopping force asymmetry be too much if you had the AP kit up front, stock in rear

The stock rear calipers work fine with a set of pads and if you really want rotors.

There is going to be little to no upgrade options for the rear brakes due to the EPB. The only one I know of is the Model S upgrade, but, I really don't think it's adding enough value to be worth it.

 

[Lucky13]

@MasterC17 how are you liking the brakes so far? I imagine you have done no track days but just curious what intial impressions are.

 

[MasterC17]

@MasterC17 how are you liking the brakes so far? I imagine you have done no track days but just curious what intial impressions are.

So far they seem pretty amazing. Extremely smooth, immediate, and consistent pedal feel. Definitely inspiring a lot more confidence than the stock brakes.

Unfortunately, all track days cancelled

 

[Mash]

The stock rear calipers work fine with a set of pads and if you really want rotors.

There is going to be little to no upgrade options for the rear brakes due to the EPB. The only one I know of is the Model S upgrade, but, I really don't think it's adding enough value to be worth it.

I'm starting to think the same. Largest rotor for rear is not really increasing rotor heat capacity. Tesla did a good job cramming a lot of metal already there. And we're limited by thickness of rear rotors anyway - it's just slightly thicker on model S. Weirdly, also rear caliper from model 3 are much larger than model S. I didn't compare pads yet, but it looks like pads also larger on model 3 performance.

The only upside I see is that if you need to increase dissipation, curved vane rotors with larger air inlets would do it better. Like 2x better. And aftermarket rotors for rear would seriously decrease heat capacity vs stock, so any compensation would help.

I'm still waiting for you guys to hit rear brakes limits, again, with low CG of Tesla it have to be happening at some point. But I don't really know - my brake temp sensors have not yet arrived.

And I believe pad compounds have to be the same front/rear otherwise brakes bias will go off and it's done well enough at factory by proper choice of valving and piston sizes, so keeping it stock ratio makes sense. I don't see that making adjustable brake bias is feasible without throwing out whole ABS and ESP system.

 

[beastmode13]

@Lucky13 @MasterC17

With a whopping 215 miles on AP Competition BBK, I can say it is incredible. I concur with all MasterC17's assessments so far. The immediacy and directness from pedal to braking translate to ZERO lag/dead travel, especially when the anti-knockback spring (AKBS) is installed. Without AKBS, there is a tiny bit of dead travel after you drive around without using brakes. We are talking about a small amount of pedal travel before pads touch rotors. Even in the worst case, it is still much less so than what I experienced on RB or stock brakes.

Can't wait to test it out on a track.

 

[Mash]

@Lucky13 @MasterC17

With a whopping 215 miles on AP Competition BBK, I can say it is incredible. I concur with all MasterC17's assessments so far. The immediacy and directness from pedal to braking translate to ZERO lag/dead travel, especially when the anti-knockback spring (AKBS) is installed. Without AKBS, there is a tiny bit of dead travel after you drive around without using brakes. We are talking about a small amount of pedal travel before pads touch rotors. Even in the worst case, it is still much less so than what I experienced on RB or stock brakes.

Can't wait to test it out on a track.

If anyone can do akbs range loss test plus pad material loss increase - that would be great.

At the same time, I have to say that I personally dislike in daily use if I can't touch brake pedal without brakes engagement. I barely can tolerate that on the track - I prefer to find a pedal to be ready for braking. My understanding that some lag is done intentionally to be part of being daily car. What do you think about that?

 

[MasterC17]

If anyone can do akbs range loss test plus pad material loss increase - that would be great.

At the same time, I have to say that I personally dislike in daily use if I can't touch brake pedal without brakes engagement. I barely can tolerate that on the track - I prefer to find a pedal to be ready for braking. My understanding that some lag is done intentionally to be part of being daily car. What do you think about that?

I will do my best to compare stock calipers to the AP kit + AKBS. There is likely measurable range loss, but I rarely drive the car and haven't had a chance to do a longer similar trip so I can't say for certain.

Track pads aren't going to last very long either way, so I think pad wear is less of a concern.

I still haven't hit the limit on the rear brakes, but the front's I have even with upgraded pads and rotors.

 

[beastmode13]

And I believe pad compounds have to be the same front/rear otherwise brakes bias will go off and it's done well enough at factory by proper choice of valving and piston sizes, so keeping it stock ratio makes sense. I don't see that making adjustable brake bias is feasible without throwing out whole ABS and ESP system.

Pad material is another f/r bias tuning opportunity. It is not a necessity to keep them the same if you have a goal in mind.

 

[Lipham]

Yes, they're the exact same ones, 610-490.

Any update on the stud installation? I'm finding myself in the floating 10mm spacer range and am interested in extended studs.

 

[Mash]

Pad material is another f/r bias tuning opportunity. It is not a necessity to keep them the same if you have a goal in mind.

Yes I completely agree, but ideally you want your front and rear axle to have same speed of reaching the same equilibrium and have same pads to have same friction response from the temperature. And then, if you're hardcore racer, you put your brake bias adjustment valve to play with it or do it permanently by changing your piston area if that's an option.

Playing with different compounds at different axles makes your warming up routine weird by pushing bias front to rear along the way. And with Tesla you might end up not having enough time to reach any equilibrium at all, so it sounds reasonable to keep bias roughly the same during warmup laps that we have to use as a hot laps.

 

[Firehuntah]

Any update on the stud installation? I'm finding myself in the floating 10mm spacer range and am interested in extended studs.

Yep, they're installed. I'll post more info about it later today when I'm home again. @beastmode13's info here in this thread is really helpful as well. Wish I'd seen it before installing mine.

 

[Lunares]

@Lucky13 @MasterC17

With a whopping 215 miles on AP Competition BBK, I can say it is incredible. I concur with all MasterC17's assessments so far. The immediacy and directness from pedal to braking translate to ZERO lag/dead travel, especially when the anti-knockback spring (AKBS) is installed. Without AKBS, there is a tiny bit of dead travel after you drive around without using brakes. We are talking about a small amount of pedal travel before pads touch rotors. Even in the worst case, it is still much less so than what I experienced on RB or stock brakes.

Can't wait to test it out on a track.

How do you feel about front black brakes when rear brakes are red =p

 

[MasterC17]

How do you feel about front black brakes when rear brakes are red =p

I'm going to have them powder-coated red during this offseason. Had I known the current season would be so delayed I would have done it prior to install, oh well.