Canceling order due to autopilot death news?

[No2DinosaurFuel]

I think the OP needs to change the title. There are way too many people misreading this. OP is saying they want to cancel due to company's viability down the road due to this incident. So they are afraid of losing the money caused by tesla going under not so much about the safty issue with autopilot because any common sense people can just NOT use the autopilot feature if it is unsafe.

As for viability of the company i understand where you stand. It is not the lack of autopilot sales that can drive tesla under but really the lawsuit. This is something people should look into when determining long term tesla's viability.

Personally i think this was tesla's problem all along. Claiming something when it is not. I wont get into details but reading this forum, i have plenty of case where tesla have oversold something. I think the marketing dept. At tesla should all be fired.

 

[msnow]

I think the OP needs to change the title. There are way too many people misreading this. OP is saying they want to cancel due to company's viability down the road due to this incident. So they are afraid of losing the money caused by tesla going under not so much about the safty issue with autopilot because any common sense people can just NOT use the autopilot feature if it is unsafe.

As for viability of the company i understand where you stand. It is not the lack of autopilot sales that can drive tesla under but really the lawsuit. This is something people should look into when determining long term tesla's viability.

Personally i think this was tesla's problem all along. Claiming something when it is not. I wont get into details but reading this forum, i have plenty of case where tesla have oversold something. I think the marketing dept. At tesla should all be fired.

Well I don't agree with your conclusion but I was surprised that Tesla self-insures for liability risks.

 

[artsci]

Today is the last day of my seven day period to cancel my order. I have to admit the news about the autopilot death spooks me a little. Not because I don't know about AP's limitations. I've driven the car extensively and understand that AP as a technology is still in its early stages.

What I'm more concerned about is what effect this will have on demand for Teslas in general. Tesla the company is riding on a lot of debt. Any significant shift in demand can cause trouble real fast. Not sure I want to plunk down 100k on a car if the company making it may be in trouble soon.

I realize I may be over-sensationalizing things, but it's still worth thinking about. Thoughts?

This has been claim of Tesla naysayers from day one and every incident of this kind raises it again. It has affected the stock price but I don't think it will effect sales. No one is required to buy AP or to turn it on while driving.

If I bought my Tesla today I would have no interest in AP -- I like to drive the car full time myself. I've saved myself from some dreadful situations on the road that could have resulted in serious accidents without AP. I focus totally on the road -- don't take or make phone calls while driving and resist all distractions from concentration on driving. AP provides a false sense of security that I consider a distraction from concentration on driving. IMHO too much faith in technology is a kind of false god.

 

[Beryl]

Tesla's AP commitment was and still remains one of the 4 main reasons I chose to buy a Tesla. I reserved a Tesla before AP was released and now that I've used it, I will continue where it makes sense, attentively with my hands on the wheel. If makes certain driving conditions (heavy traffic & long trips) pleasant.

Fully electric with significant range, USA built, continuously improving technology via software, & excellent safety standards are the other reasons.

 

[buckerine]

I think the OP needs to change the title. There are way too many people misreading this. OP is saying they want to cancel due to company's viability down the road due to this incident. So they are afraid of losing the money caused by tesla going under not so much about the safty issue with autopilot because any common sense people can just NOT use the autopilot feature if it is unsafe.

As for viability of the company i understand where you stand. It is not the lack of autopilot sales that can drive tesla under but really the lawsuit. This is something people should look into when determining long term tesla's viability.

Personally i think this was tesla's problem all along. Claiming something when it is not. I wont get into details but reading this forum, i have plenty of case where tesla have oversold something. I think the marketing dept. At tesla should all be fired.

Lawsuits most likely won't be the downfall of Tesla. But soft demand will. And Tesla apparently missed delivery estimates for Q2 by a bit. Stuff like this sort of gives me the jitters. But like I said its stil an awesome car and I personally am going through with the order.

 

[GoTslaGo]

Lawsuits most likely won't be the downfall of Tesla. But soft demand will. And Tesla apparently missed delivery estimates for Q2 by a bit. Stuff like this sort of gives me the jitters. But like I said its stil an awesome car and I personally am going through with the order.

IMHO, shouldn't be too worried about demand. Their running the factory at 2k cars/week almost all of June. They missed the delivery numbers, but there are 5k cars in transit. They were able to produce 18+k cars this quarter, deliver 14k cars. Running 2 shifts a day. Some other posters have reported "3rd shift" for maintenance. Sounds pretty busy to me. Factors that likely slowed deliveries this quarter include, Model X QA by Musk and new face-lift and retooling. That being said, I do expect Wall Street to punish the share price this week.

 

[DCGOO]

If I bought my Tesla today I would have no interest in AP -- I like to drive the car full time myself. I've saved myself from some dreadful situations on the road that could have resulted in serious accidents without AP. I focus totally on the road -- don't take or make phone calls while driving and resist all distractions from concentration on driving. AP provides a false sense of security that I consider a distraction from concentration on driving. IMHO too much faith in technology is a kind of false god.

Would you use cruise control?

 

[m2s2]

I was wondering about delaying an order because I am trading in my pre autopilot MS for an MX. I do a lot of stop and go highway driving. So one feature I am looking forward to is the autopilot. I am a bit worried the NTSA might force Tesla to disable the feature. I hope not. I happened to finalize the order on a Demo X they day of the accident. So I should have it in a week or two.

 

[WannabeOwner]

The last thing I am wondering is why we allow trailers to be designed such that cars can drive underneath them. Many trucks already have under-ride guards in the back, why not require them on the sides? (see photos). When a car goes underneath a truck all the safety features built into the car are pretty much useless. This looks like a problem with a fairly simple solution.

View attachment 183794 View attachment 183795

Side guards (under run protection) have been a requirement for large goods vehicles and trailers in the UK for over 30 years ... surprising and disappointing that its not a requirement in the USA too - the consequences of a car going under a trailer, and the roof being chopped off, are horrific.

 

[Duckjybe]

Side guards (under run protection) have been a requirement for large goods vehicles and trailers in the UK for over 30 years ... surprising and disappointing that its not a requirement in the USA too - the consequences of a car going under a trailer, and the roof being chopped off, are horrific.

Totally agree. If the truck in the autopilot accident had side guards the automatic braking may have activated and slowed or stopped the car from going right under the trailer. Side guards make sense not only for safety but also for aerodynamics. They are adding fibreglass side fairings to trailers here in NA so making them structural for safety should be a no-brainer.

 

[boonedocks]

I may be mistaken, but wasn't the accident actually due to a fault in the Mobileye system not detecting the truck? There is more than one system involved in activating AutoPilot. One of them is a standalone part of the Tesla that is available to all circa/A/P hardware cars with active safety features. Isn't the Mobileye system responsible for seeing and detecting and finally invoking the automatic braking system on our Tesla's, the same as any other car equipped with Mobileye's automatic braking system? Even if the driver had just been using TACC which is available on many cars, wouldn't this same accident have happened if the driver was distracted or couldn't see clearly? I just don't want to see Tesla and the growth of safety features hindered because of misconception or misuse of a Tesla feature. I hope the media that is so quick to jump on Tesla will look at the true cause of the, where technology was at fault, and not point it's finger solely at Tesla.

 

[electracity]

I was wondering about delaying an order because I am trading in my pre autopilot MS for an MX. I do a lot of stop and go highway driving. So one feature I am looking forward to is the autopilot. I am a bit worried the NTSA might force Tesla to disable the feature. I hope not. I happened to finalize the order on a Demo X they day of the accident. So I should have it in a week or two.

The NHTSA knows how many people die in car accidents every day. I think auto braking on all cars equipped is disappointingly limited, but these systems do provide a benefit in their current form.

I don't see any reason Tesla would be singled out here for an administrative action.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

I may be mistaken, but wasn't the accident actually due to a fault in the Mobileye system not detecting the truck?

No, the MobileEye system does not have lateral transit across path (LTAP) detection. A new MobileEye system with LTAP detection is supposed to be available around 2018.

"Fault" implies that the system failed to do what it was supposed to do. There was no "fault" in this accident in this sense. The existing MobileEye system does not have the capability to, and was not designed to activate AEB upon a LTAP situation, so there is no fault with it.

 

[Clomer]

Side guards (under run protection) have been a requirement for large goods vehicles and trailers in the UK for over 30 years ... surprising and disappointing that its not a requirement in the USA too - the consequences of a car going under a trailer, and the roof being chopped off, are horrific.

The outcome of the NHTSA investigation that I would love to see would be for them to mandate Side Guards on trucks. This would do far more to improve overall road safety for everyone than imposing some kind of restriction on autonomous systems based on this one accident. Indeed, if the truck in question had side guards, it's possible that the autopilot system wouldn't have been confused the way it was and would have been able to prevent the collision. Even if not, then the Model S's safety systems would have had a chance to do their job, and the driver might have survived.

 

[msnow]

Hmmm, seems we are way off topic.

 

[Clomer]

Yea, you're probably right. A number of these posts (including my last one) should probably be moved to the thread on the accident itself.

 

[Lex]

This has been claim of Tesla naysayers from day one and every incident of this kind raises it again. It has affected the stock price but I don't think it will effect sales. No one is required to buy AP or to turn it on while driving.

Agreed. Though sometimes it's really fun being the underdog, human tragedy is inevitable in the (current) vehicle transportation business and it really hurts with such a small community, but that agility means we're moving on together.

If I bought my Tesla today I would have no interest in AP -- I like to drive the car full time myself. I've saved myself from some dreadful situations on the road that could have resulted in serious accidents without AP. I focus totally on the road -- don't take or make phone calls while driving and resist all distractions from concentration on driving.

Well then Autopilot should be your dream come true then as I am similar in that I need "total situational awareness" and AP allows a more open focus to the road ahead and around. I am not the first to say this. And yes, I use it daily and also manually drive as much as I can, at least for the fun fresh air parts.

But, if you are worried about the "being lulled into a false sense of security" thing that is one everyone's mind, then I am starting to better understand why some owners would prefer not to have it available. I was rear-ended by a texting person in my last car, thankfully at slow speed. Using your mobile phone here is points and big fine, yet some risk it. It literally equates to zombie cars on the road.

 

[theslimshadyist]

Lawsuits most likely won't be the downfall of Tesla. But soft demand will. And Tesla apparently missed delivery estimates for Q2 by a bit. Stuff like this sort of gives me the jitters. But like I said its stil an awesome car and I personally am going through with the order.

Good choice. You can leave AP off your build or add it later, the good news is that you have choices.

 

[buckerine]

Good choice. You can leave AP off your build or add it later, the good news is that you have choices.

Yep. I kept AP on as I think it works great. But I pushed delivery back until March of next year so I can hopefully get all of the new goodies released this year.

 

[Pawilson3]

Good God how many people have died in ICE autos since this death? Don't let the idiots writing headlines change your mind. I have owned my S three weeks and only gotten to use AP for one extended trip. If you stay alert and use it the way it is supposed to be used it is wonderful and takes the stress out of stop and go traffic.

Agree completely. Has anyone pointed out how many accidents AP has prevented? It will be interesting to see the overall fatality statistics a few years from now. I expect the comparison to # of miles driven without this type of assisted technology will be favorable.