charlesoris
2022 MYLR Red/White, 19", OD:12/13/21
It is a marketing scheme to sell Enhanced AP for $6K which I am not going to pay for.
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Cannot use autopilot for more than 15-30 minutes
- Thread starter Handsome Jack
- Start date
gx9901
Member
When I've used Autopilot, I could always use it for as long as I wanted, so being disabled every 15~30 minutes is definitely not normal in my experience.
Assuming there are no issues with your particular demo Model Y, it appears that you are not putting any or enough torque for the torque sensor on the steering wheel to detect the presence of your hand on it. Tesla doesn't use capacitive steering wheel, so just holding the steering wheel won't do it.
I personally find it really easy to keep enough torque on the steering wheel while using AP. I typically rest my right elbow on the center armrest and lightly hold the steering wheel at the right spoke area, with my right arm basically dangling off the steering wheel that way. That position is fairly comfortable for me to hold for long stretches and always puts enough torque on the steering wheel. If I get bored of that posture, I would switch to the left arm and do the same thing using the door armrest. It has been a very very long time since I last saw blue flashing on the screen while using AP using this technique to hold the steering wheel.
The FSD beta does use both the inside camera and the wheel torque. Non-FSD beta is just the wheel torque.
Maybe @nate704 are lucky, but I have done a 1,000 mile round trip three times in my first year with an MYLR, and there has been only once (in a very heavy downpour) where autopilot disengaged. I just did a 120 mile trip (one way) last night with no issues as well.
Also, here are a few items I found to be different or in addition to what others have stated above:
1. To keep autopilot active, you can also rotate the audio volume wheel or the cruise control speed wheel on the steering wheel.
2. I regularly use autopilot on city streets where the speed limit is 25-40 MPH. I have to manually stop for red lights and stop signs if there isn't a car stopped ahead of me. I usually add some acceleration after stops them let AP take over.
3. I've also found that there is a camera effect for AP. I have gone as long as 90 seconds without a prompt if I don't have sunglasses on and am staring at the road. If I start looking at the screen or at my phone, I get the usual 30-second prompt or even more frequently if it's heavier traffic.
Here is a tip that’ll save a lot of stress and annoyance. You don’t need to really hold the wheel and torque it but instead you can simply scroll the left volume wheel and that is good enough for the car to realize you are still in control.
What I do is every time I see the blue flashing sign I scroll the volume button up or down and the flashing will go away, but once in a way, it’ll force you to gently torque the wheel. Now, as a matter of habit, involuntarily I scroll the volume wheel every minute or two and I can drive for a long time without being put on auto pilot jail. On curves I slow the car down a bit if needed.
I’ve been using auto pilot for close to four years now I’m enjoying it
What I do is every time I see the blue flashing sign I scroll the volume button up or down and the flashing will go away, but once in a way, it’ll force you to gently torque the wheel. Now, as a matter of habit, involuntarily I scroll the volume wheel every minute or two and I can drive for a long time without being put on auto pilot jail. On curves I slow the car down a bit if needed.
I’ve been using auto pilot for close to four years now I’m enjoying it
Um. Driving a Model 3, LR, RWD, 2018 vintage. Came with EAP, which means highway autopilot: Lane keeping, traffic aware cruise control, and, after the first bunch of updates, the ability to play navigate from one interstate to another, automatic turns onto an off-ramp, and could change lanes upon command without running into other cars. (All those cameras mean something).
Bought FSD a couple years after getting the car, not while FSD was cheap, but before it took the price jump to where it is now.
Got into the Beta in early 2nd quarter of 2022, when it was being made available to a larger crowd, and have been beta testing away since then.
Now, this car has been all over the eastern half of the US: West to Chicago, south to Kentucky, up and down the east coast from Maine to Florida.
Most of that has been on EAP/FSD/FSD-b.
Now, when EAP was new, the car definitely did screwy things. But that's why there's software updates.
Rain and snow hasn't been a major issue. That is: Start with no rain, drive into drizzle, drive into light rain, then medium, then heavy, and back out again. The autopilot can usually handle things fairly well; first thing to go, in medium rain, is the NoA; then, when it gets heavier, it'll bail on lanekeeping, then TACC. But, to get to that point, we're talking rain heavy enough so that traffic slows down and everybody is peering through windshields. When the rain lightens up the capability to first TACC, then LK, then NoA all comes back. Snow has been around the last few years; I don't remember anything extraordinary in that.
Now, as part of getting into FSD-b, one had to request the feature, then there'd be this Driving Score. The general idea being that if one could magically score a 100 for a full month of driving around in "Request Mode", then a miracle would happen and one could then use the FSD-b, and the Driving Score software would (thankfully) go away. Getting high scores in Driving Score was.. difficult. Let a car pull out in front of one a hundred yards up and, if the car thought one was too close, one would get a ding. Car's pulling into one's lane, then braking: Another one of them. Anything other than mild braking was a demerit, not to mention going around a curve at speed. Get too many dings in a day (and it would happen: I live in New Jersey, a winner or runner-up for most congested state), then one would lose all auto-everything until the next drive or day, depending. All of this was understandable: For beta testers, one (a) does not want idiots who think that they can sleep while the car drives and (b) nobody who thinks that All Cars Are Race Cars. It flushes out the worst of the YouTube idiots..
The EAP suite version of the software will run on city streets and will change lanes on multi-lane local roads. It won't stop for stop signs or stop lights. And it's... ok... on avoiding cars parked on the side of the road, pedestrians crossing in front of one, and so on. I, personally, wouldn't take an EAP car on auto-anything through a town or city center, but it would be OK in the countryside. The more stripes on the road, the better. FSD, without the beta, can handle stop lights and stop signs. That is, it'll come to a stop, but, the last I looked, it won't start up by itself if it's first in line at a traffic light or at all at a stop sign. And won't do NoA on local roads.
At this point in time, if one has FSD, then one can request and get the Beta. First thing one sees in the Beta is the statement, "FSD Beta will do the wrong thing at the worst time." They're not kidding. Not paying attention back in, say, June of 2022 would get one either dead or in a mangled car in short order. It's kind of better than that now, but, on a drive of fifteen miles, there will be times when the driver has to intervene. In my messing around, I can get a 10 mile drive without interventions about one-quarter the time; the rest, there will be (typically) intersections where the car gets it wrong, every time; other times, where it gets it wrong some percentage of the time; and others where it breezes on through like a human. Long stretches of straight-ahead tend to work very, very well; well-marked left and right turns at lights and stop signs do as well, and the car does a decent job of going around stopped garbage trucks and the like. And very good at avoiding pedestrians, although you can bet, given the general random flakiness of the software, that such interactions with other humans involve a white-knuckle grip on the steering wheel. Not that the car has done anything to warrant those white knuckles, but one doesn't want to be the first to find some corner case.
Now, the OP stated that he got kicked out on a regular basis. That is very definitely odd. Yes, if one isn't paying attention (yep, the FSD-b uses the camera and torque to measure driver attentiveness), then one gets flashing blue patterns on the screen and a beep; don't pay attention to those and, yeah, one will get kicked out for the day. Get five strikes like this, and No More FSD-b For You for a week. (It used to be until the next SW update; now they just lock one out for a week.)
I, personally, don't find the monitoring onerous. They want eyes front and/or looking around. Not staring at the screen for a minute or so. As far as the torque stuff goes: I had gotten into the habit of driving one-handed, with that hand sort of hanging on the wheel. But, do that long enough and the monitoring thinks that one might be using a defeat device, like a weight. Those have been, literally, outlawed. (And, my opinion, anybody using such a thing is trying for a Darwin Award.) Besides: I was trained to drive with both hands. So, up they both go. Lean to the left for a while, then lean to the right for a while. That actually works and it's easy to learn. I've gone down hundreds of miles of interstate like that with nary a problem.
Now, I want all of you to think about that Ford (or is it GM?) commercial, where the driver and all his/her idiot friends play clap-along. Look, Ma! Hands-free driving! So long as one's eyes are out front... except that Tesla's competitors in this space don't have ADAS systems that are even close to what Tesla can do. So, when something goes inevitably wrong, said drivers have to stop playing clap-along and move their hands to the steering wheel before any avoidance maneuver can be accomplished. Um. If one is playing avoidance maneuver, short reaction times are in order, and having one's hands anywhere else other than the steering wheel would be a Bad Idea.
So, if the OP is honest in what's going on, I suspect that a camera calibration might be in order. But.. There's this meme: Every Driver Thinks That Their Skills Are Better. Even when their skills, well, aren't.
This gets brought to the fore by stuff like that Driving Score stuff that Tesla was running. Lots of people complained about how much of a Granny-Mode driving experience that software was pushing onto people. Well and good, I felt like that, too. But there were drivers who scored high-90's on that scoring system from the get-go, when others, using the same software, struggled mightily. It took a while for me to modify habits of a lifetime to up the score, and that wasn't easy. So.. was this a case of driver mania, or not?
Bought FSD a couple years after getting the car, not while FSD was cheap, but before it took the price jump to where it is now.
Got into the Beta in early 2nd quarter of 2022, when it was being made available to a larger crowd, and have been beta testing away since then.
Now, this car has been all over the eastern half of the US: West to Chicago, south to Kentucky, up and down the east coast from Maine to Florida.
Most of that has been on EAP/FSD/FSD-b.
Now, when EAP was new, the car definitely did screwy things. But that's why there's software updates.
Rain and snow hasn't been a major issue. That is: Start with no rain, drive into drizzle, drive into light rain, then medium, then heavy, and back out again. The autopilot can usually handle things fairly well; first thing to go, in medium rain, is the NoA; then, when it gets heavier, it'll bail on lanekeeping, then TACC. But, to get to that point, we're talking rain heavy enough so that traffic slows down and everybody is peering through windshields. When the rain lightens up the capability to first TACC, then LK, then NoA all comes back. Snow has been around the last few years; I don't remember anything extraordinary in that.
Now, as part of getting into FSD-b, one had to request the feature, then there'd be this Driving Score. The general idea being that if one could magically score a 100 for a full month of driving around in "Request Mode", then a miracle would happen and one could then use the FSD-b, and the Driving Score software would (thankfully) go away. Getting high scores in Driving Score was.. difficult. Let a car pull out in front of one a hundred yards up and, if the car thought one was too close, one would get a ding. Car's pulling into one's lane, then braking: Another one of them. Anything other than mild braking was a demerit, not to mention going around a curve at speed. Get too many dings in a day (and it would happen: I live in New Jersey, a winner or runner-up for most congested state), then one would lose all auto-everything until the next drive or day, depending. All of this was understandable: For beta testers, one (a) does not want idiots who think that they can sleep while the car drives and (b) nobody who thinks that All Cars Are Race Cars. It flushes out the worst of the YouTube idiots..
The EAP suite version of the software will run on city streets and will change lanes on multi-lane local roads. It won't stop for stop signs or stop lights. And it's... ok... on avoiding cars parked on the side of the road, pedestrians crossing in front of one, and so on. I, personally, wouldn't take an EAP car on auto-anything through a town or city center, but it would be OK in the countryside. The more stripes on the road, the better. FSD, without the beta, can handle stop lights and stop signs. That is, it'll come to a stop, but, the last I looked, it won't start up by itself if it's first in line at a traffic light or at all at a stop sign. And won't do NoA on local roads.
At this point in time, if one has FSD, then one can request and get the Beta. First thing one sees in the Beta is the statement, "FSD Beta will do the wrong thing at the worst time." They're not kidding. Not paying attention back in, say, June of 2022 would get one either dead or in a mangled car in short order. It's kind of better than that now, but, on a drive of fifteen miles, there will be times when the driver has to intervene. In my messing around, I can get a 10 mile drive without interventions about one-quarter the time; the rest, there will be (typically) intersections where the car gets it wrong, every time; other times, where it gets it wrong some percentage of the time; and others where it breezes on through like a human. Long stretches of straight-ahead tend to work very, very well; well-marked left and right turns at lights and stop signs do as well, and the car does a decent job of going around stopped garbage trucks and the like. And very good at avoiding pedestrians, although you can bet, given the general random flakiness of the software, that such interactions with other humans involve a white-knuckle grip on the steering wheel. Not that the car has done anything to warrant those white knuckles, but one doesn't want to be the first to find some corner case.
Now, the OP stated that he got kicked out on a regular basis. That is very definitely odd. Yes, if one isn't paying attention (yep, the FSD-b uses the camera and torque to measure driver attentiveness), then one gets flashing blue patterns on the screen and a beep; don't pay attention to those and, yeah, one will get kicked out for the day. Get five strikes like this, and No More FSD-b For You for a week. (It used to be until the next SW update; now they just lock one out for a week.)
I, personally, don't find the monitoring onerous. They want eyes front and/or looking around. Not staring at the screen for a minute or so. As far as the torque stuff goes: I had gotten into the habit of driving one-handed, with that hand sort of hanging on the wheel. But, do that long enough and the monitoring thinks that one might be using a defeat device, like a weight. Those have been, literally, outlawed. (And, my opinion, anybody using such a thing is trying for a Darwin Award.) Besides: I was trained to drive with both hands. So, up they both go. Lean to the left for a while, then lean to the right for a while. That actually works and it's easy to learn. I've gone down hundreds of miles of interstate like that with nary a problem.
Now, I want all of you to think about that Ford (or is it GM?) commercial, where the driver and all his/her idiot friends play clap-along. Look, Ma! Hands-free driving! So long as one's eyes are out front... except that Tesla's competitors in this space don't have ADAS systems that are even close to what Tesla can do. So, when something goes inevitably wrong, said drivers have to stop playing clap-along and move their hands to the steering wheel before any avoidance maneuver can be accomplished. Um. If one is playing avoidance maneuver, short reaction times are in order, and having one's hands anywhere else other than the steering wheel would be a Bad Idea.
So, if the OP is honest in what's going on, I suspect that a camera calibration might be in order. But.. There's this meme: Every Driver Thinks That Their Skills Are Better. Even when their skills, well, aren't.
This gets brought to the fore by stuff like that Driving Score stuff that Tesla was running. Lots of people complained about how much of a Granny-Mode driving experience that software was pushing onto people. Well and good, I felt like that, too. But there were drivers who scored high-90's on that scoring system from the get-go, when others, using the same software, struggled mightily. It took a while for me to modify habits of a lifetime to up the score, and that wasn't easy. So.. was this a case of driver mania, or not?
Thanks everyone for an answer!
Now as per your description, I'm thinking that it's EU cars issue. I've been to testla on testdrive to try out another Model Y - absolutely the same thing.
> Now I just hang my left hand at the bottom of the wheel and I can drive without any nagging for as long as I need to.
> Keeping hands on the steering wheel and continuously applying light force becomes tiring after a while.
> is not looking for holding, it is looking for rotational pressure.
That's exactly what I do, i.e. I'm resting my hand on steering wheel, applying downward pressure. I've driven like that 75,000km (~40,000 miles) in toyotas corolla and then Rav4 with no issues whatsoever.
Moreover - it looks like it flashes blue light more often than people here suggests - each 15-30 seconds. I need not only rest my hand but make noticeable steering input.
>1. To keep autopilot active, you can also rotate the audio volume wheel or the cruise control speed wheel on the steering wheel.
That also didn't work for me - I was banned multiple times while adjusting speed or volume so didn't notice blue flashing.
> I’d recommend just keeping your Rav 4
That's not an option either - we have a baby and we just don't fit in the car for long travel. Besides, we often drive on curvy non highway roads where Rav4 doesn't handle well. Highlander (it has updated assists systems) actually handled exceptionally well, but - 2 years waiting time or cost of used more than TMY.
I actually was so disappointed that Autopilot is effectively useless that I was going to let my reservation payment go and just buy another car (likely ICE, probably used Highlander). EAP actually was even worse - I was testing auto lane change, changing lane is taking about 7 seconds and if it flashes blue light (even once) during the change - it won't change lane showing timeout. With light flashing each 15-30 seconds it was like 40% of auto lane change will just fail.
However, I end up solving it .... by counterweight!
And I can say it just changed car completely! Finally, I can focus on situation on road, reading and anticipating another drivers and NOT constantly looking down for blue light or jiggling a wheel in a way that satisfies a car and again looking down to ensure it worked. And I end up arriving to the destination significantly more rested as well.
Moreover - my reaction time on autopilot failures improved dramatically - before when I was busy watching not to get ban - I discover that tesla doing something silly a bit too late so I have to jerk wheel noticeably what made my wife to complain, now, with my eyes on road I'm reacting in milliseconds so the drive is smooth and my wife notice nothing. Also I react on phantom braking significantly faster due to the same reason.
The counterweight immediately solved first issue I've described - on roads with lots of turns etc. (just to keep everyone calm - my eyes are on the road and my hands are CONSTANTLY on a wheel, or at least touching a wheel as when I rest a hand I do it in an opposite direction so counter weight doesn't work, but still, I'm ready to get control instantly, much faster than without counterweight and did already a lot of time)
However it was keep blocking me for defeat device on a highway (rightfully so in this case) - this took me about a day to overcome by testing all possible ways. I won't tell how I've done that as I don't want tesla to block it completely (and ensure I won't encourage people sleeping in a driving car) - but it's possible.
I have now completely different impressions of a car, like it was broken and now repaired, and I'm proceeding with purchase now! Hopefully will get my own within next few weeks!
Re: phantom braking and silly behaviour - I'm totally fine with that, I'm using assists for years in other cars and neither is perfect, but if you understand how they work there is a clear pattern where they excel (usually 80-99% of the trip) and where you just need to hold a wheel and be just constantly ready to take control - still, those 80-99% are completely worth it!
Now as per your description, I'm thinking that it's EU cars issue. I've been to testla on testdrive to try out another Model Y - absolutely the same thing.
> Now I just hang my left hand at the bottom of the wheel and I can drive without any nagging for as long as I need to.
> Keeping hands on the steering wheel and continuously applying light force becomes tiring after a while.
> is not looking for holding, it is looking for rotational pressure.
That's exactly what I do, i.e. I'm resting my hand on steering wheel, applying downward pressure. I've driven like that 75,000km (~40,000 miles) in toyotas corolla and then Rav4 with no issues whatsoever.
Moreover - it looks like it flashes blue light more often than people here suggests - each 15-30 seconds. I need not only rest my hand but make noticeable steering input.
>1. To keep autopilot active, you can also rotate the audio volume wheel or the cruise control speed wheel on the steering wheel.
That also didn't work for me - I was banned multiple times while adjusting speed or volume so didn't notice blue flashing.
> I’d recommend just keeping your Rav 4
That's not an option either - we have a baby and we just don't fit in the car for long travel. Besides, we often drive on curvy non highway roads where Rav4 doesn't handle well. Highlander (it has updated assists systems) actually handled exceptionally well, but - 2 years waiting time or cost of used more than TMY.
I actually was so disappointed that Autopilot is effectively useless that I was going to let my reservation payment go and just buy another car (likely ICE, probably used Highlander). EAP actually was even worse - I was testing auto lane change, changing lane is taking about 7 seconds and if it flashes blue light (even once) during the change - it won't change lane showing timeout. With light flashing each 15-30 seconds it was like 40% of auto lane change will just fail.
However, I end up solving it .... by counterweight!
And I can say it just changed car completely! Finally, I can focus on situation on road, reading and anticipating another drivers and NOT constantly looking down for blue light or jiggling a wheel in a way that satisfies a car and again looking down to ensure it worked. And I end up arriving to the destination significantly more rested as well.
Moreover - my reaction time on autopilot failures improved dramatically - before when I was busy watching not to get ban - I discover that tesla doing something silly a bit too late so I have to jerk wheel noticeably what made my wife to complain, now, with my eyes on road I'm reacting in milliseconds so the drive is smooth and my wife notice nothing. Also I react on phantom braking significantly faster due to the same reason.
The counterweight immediately solved first issue I've described - on roads with lots of turns etc. (just to keep everyone calm - my eyes are on the road and my hands are CONSTANTLY on a wheel, or at least touching a wheel as when I rest a hand I do it in an opposite direction so counter weight doesn't work, but still, I'm ready to get control instantly, much faster than without counterweight and did already a lot of time)
However it was keep blocking me for defeat device on a highway (rightfully so in this case) - this took me about a day to overcome by testing all possible ways. I won't tell how I've done that as I don't want tesla to block it completely (and ensure I won't encourage people sleeping in a driving car) - but it's possible.
I have now completely different impressions of a car, like it was broken and now repaired, and I'm proceeding with purchase now! Hopefully will get my own within next few weeks!
Re: phantom braking and silly behaviour - I'm totally fine with that, I'm using assists for years in other cars and neither is perfect, but if you understand how they work there is a clear pattern where they excel (usually 80-99% of the trip) and where you just need to hold a wheel and be just constantly ready to take control - still, those 80-99% are completely worth it!
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yYeah, I too find a big difference between my original model three and my new model Y when it comes to being able to function as cleanly in stop and go traffic. Not to mention going around curves on sloping (up or down) highway sections.
Without a doubt, not having the radar absolutely affects how well auto pilot and full self driving work.
I’ve had auto pilot disengage abruptly without warnings.
I’ve also had it decide to tell me that I’m using some sort of weighted steering wheel device when I’m not.
And lastly, I’ve also had the camera algorithm tell me that I’m not paying attention to the road when in fact, that’s all I’m doing... (literally looking straight ahead with my hand on the wheel)
So it’s definitely flaky…
My old model 3 used to lose it’s *sugar* whatever it was lightly raining outside because I got a lot of condensation in the B pillar cameras. my model why is better in this regard…
If this worked, it means everything is fine with your EU car, you just didn't put enough weight with your hand, when keeping one hand on the wheel.
Hmm... Over on that 69.xx FSD-b thread, over the past twelve months or so we have had posters (some of whom might even be of the trollish persuasion: That is, not actually owning a Tesla, but making like they do, in the interests of Yuks) who said that they were using various defeat devices to fool the car that Hands Were On The Wheel. A varying number of these types also claimed that sunglasses worked a treat on defeating the in-cabin camera. They got a fairly hot reception from what I presume to be regulars, along the lines of, "You have these safety features on an unreliable FSD-b and you defeated them?" Notably, the reaction from those types when called on this behavior was the "smilley" icon.. which probably means that they were trolls.
Remember, FSD-b had been primarily for full-on beta testing. Few if any accidents, but a whole lot of, "Stop that car from running a red light!" So, when some of these weighty defeat devices hit the market, it wasn't long before serious three-and-four-letter Gumment Agencies outlawed the sale of these things. In my opinion, a very good idea. That doesn't stop the black market, of course.
And Tesla added some software to detect defeat devices. If it catches an FSD-b tester using one, then No More FSD-b For You. For at least a week. Said software has been through some iterations. There have been complaints that early versions were too sensitive, but, I dunno. Like I said, trolls have been present.
Now, there's no question the car I'm currently driving which, yes, does have FSD-b, has all the detectors Tesla has deigned to deliver, and, yeah, if I drive straight down an interstate with both hands on the wheel and don't twitch, I'm going to get the blue flashies. If I take my eyes off the road for an extended period of time (at least, without sunglasses, which I do wear when warranted), then, yeah, blue flashies.
But driving in such a way to not get blue flashies and the boops and all is so darned easy. Gently move the steering wheel this way and that, leaning left, leaning right. Not looking at the screen overly much. Doing the usual scan like every sane driver does (front, rear-views, speedometer, sides, etc.). I mean, if I want to change radio stations or switch streaming, the trick is to do so with some (but not an infinite amount of) alacrity. All of which is vaguely sanish. Frankly, the other posters on the 69.xx thread rarely make complaints about these monitor-the-drivers features.. and the trolls (if they are trolls) haven't been complaining about this kind of stuff for a couple-three months now.
And then there's you. Defeat device. And hands on the wheel.
OK. You're not driving the Beta, I think. And we in the Beta may be getting a somewhat more advanced driver-inattention detector suite than what you're getting. But my SO's Model Y, which does have EAP, but no FSD, drives pretty much like the M3, which has the FSD-b. My SO doesn't like to drive with FSD-b, so she has that turned off in her profile when she drives the M3 (Yes, one can do that), but neither of us seem to have problems with the attention detectors. Like you are.
Something doesn't fit.
I’ve had a number of times It seems to think there’s some sort of defeat device on the steering wheel…. I’ve just assumed that I have to light a touch or something like that.
several firmware revisions earlier during our summer trip we actually had it happen where it started alarming and told me that highway FSB was no longer available for the remainder of the trip. (abruptly without warning)
That really pissed me off given that there was no warning and it literally just cut out.
It’s definitely been somewhat buggy….
several firmware revisions earlier during our summer trip we actually had it happen where it started alarming and told me that highway FSB was no longer available for the remainder of the trip. (abruptly without warning)
That really pissed me off given that there was no warning and it literally just cut out.
It’s definitely been somewhat buggy….
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Best to consider whether you want the car without adding any value to the equation from the driving assist features/autopilot. No matter what the fanboys on here tell you, the driver assist features on Teslas are trash.
I doubt it - the counter weight weights about 500 gram (1 lb) - that's quite significant downforce to apply and it's tiring
I.e. maybe you're right and it's by design but then it's flawed design. I was driving about 5 different cars from 4 different automakers this way (by resting hand on a wheel) and only tesla had issues
It may be EU version. People mentioned here 90 seconds without blue light not touching the wheel. For me it's about 10-15 seconds without touching steering wheel, when having hands on wheel and often doing some minor adjustments - I'm getting nagged about each 20-60 seconds.
I'm not Troll
In the end I've ordered Tesla and with defeat device it's pleasant and safe experience (safe in sense that I can look at the road and not on the screen)I actually completely agree WAY behind many brands, at least the versions I had (in EU, rental and test drive at the dealership), even recent Toyotas has system that behave better in most circumstances. Agreed that sometimes tesla can handle the turn that probably no other car maker can, BUT it's so risky that you anyway keep hands on steering wheel to be able to take control any time - arguably you don't need autopilot there.
Probably US versions are better in that regard but this nag that's happening each 15-30 seconds that force you to jiggle the wheel it's something absolutely unacceptable. True that I was able to defeat it but I'm software developer and can figure out how they can detect devices and be able to overcome it, regular people most likely not so much. I cannot recommend Tesla in current state to anyone who's looking primary for the best autopilot tech. And who need parking aid - here new models will have only rear camera.
However, if things above aren't deal breaker it still can be worthwhile package, especially after recent price drop, and when traditional automakers are having enormous issues with chips (in EU waiting time for virtually anything but tesla is 1-2+ years)
So despite of those things above I end up buying tesla
@Handsome Jack one thing to consider is if the FW is actually up to date...
I'm sure there are differences between the US and EU FW code.
I've had lots of stupid things with the Model Y and some revisions of the firmware. I don't consider Tesla to be really far behind the competition in driver assist features, but they are certainly a different take on how to do it.
We also have a Subaru Ascent SUV, and I call it the Nanny car. The damn thing is obnoxious in it's need to give you crap and warning signals... none of which can be permanently disabled. Effectively, Subaru is forcing you to use their driver assist technologies, and are ass-hats about how they are doing it. Nice vehicle, but a dictatorship of driver assist technologies.
I'm sure there are differences between the US and EU FW code.
I've had lots of stupid things with the Model Y and some revisions of the firmware. I don't consider Tesla to be really far behind the competition in driver assist features, but they are certainly a different take on how to do it.
We also have a Subaru Ascent SUV, and I call it the Nanny car. The damn thing is obnoxious in it's need to give you crap and warning signals... none of which can be permanently disabled. Effectively, Subaru is forcing you to use their driver assist technologies, and are ass-hats about how they are doing it. Nice vehicle, but a dictatorship of driver assist technologies.
Lots of downvotes of course. I should rephrase. In a vacuum, and compared to having no adaptive or basic cruise control, it has maybe some value.
I have owned the following vehicles with adaptive cruise and lane keeping assist: 21 MX, 23 MY, 2 BMW 5 series & an X3, Range Rover Sport, Hyundai Sonata, Mercedes Benz GLE, Genesis GV70 & GV80 and a Ram 1500 Limited.
Every single one of those vehicle‘s systems were both objectively (percentage of time it stayed activated and percentage of situations taking the correct action) and subjectively (amount of annoyance to me) better than the system on Teslas.
Perhaps those of you disagreeing have not had experience with other systems?
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I've used the EyeSight system from Subaru extensively (daily), and it's worked quite well. Plus the system on the x7 BMW...
I also purchased a M3LR in 2019 and drove it using autopilot / FSD daily until I upgraded to a MYP, and did not have any significant issues.
The only pains I've had are the ones mentioned above. Though I would like the features to be a little better in the blind spot notification realm.
I also purchased a M3LR in 2019 and drove it using autopilot / FSD daily until I upgraded to a MYP, and did not have any significant issues.
The only pains I've had are the ones mentioned above. Though I would like the features to be a little better in the blind spot notification realm.
The nanny comment is interesting to me. I have never driven a recent Subaru.
Out of all vehicles I have had with advanced assist features, my 23 MY is the most annoying and nannying to me. I just drove it four hours yesterday, and a significant portion of the time the system wouldn’t function at all because it said cameras were blocked or visibility was limited. Then when it does work, it makes the most obnoxious sound when you get even near the line. You can’t change lanes without disengaging and re-engaging it. The system constantly asks you to torque the wheel and on my particular MY the difference between telling it I’m there and disengaging it is extremely small. On my 2021 MX the difference is much larger and it is much easier to signal that I am holding the wheel without disengaging the system.
although I was able to leave emergency road departure on, I had to turn lane keeping off completely because of the constant shrieking.
Additionally, when you are next to a huge semi, the system, likes to stay in the center or biased to the right side of the lane and if you try to correct, it is disengage is the system.
I find that AP requires more steering wheel input to remain engaged than simply driving down the road manually, at least on interstates. One of many reasons I find it to be essentially useless. Mine also shuts off for the duration of the trip when I correct it when it tries to lurch to the right when there is a merging lane and the car tries to center itself on the lane-and-a-half wide road markings.
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