CCS Adapter for North America

[cwerdna]

I have the Chademo franken-adapter. I could only get 26 KWh out of a station that is capable of 50 KWh on my last couple attempts.

I'm confused, was the charging rate 26 kW or were 26 kWh dispensed. "station that is capable of 50 KWh" makes no sense. Are you talking about a charging rate of 50 kW or what the charger is rated at or you had 50 kWh of energy dispensed?

Do you have a Plugshare link to the CHAdeMO charger(s) you've used?

kW and kWh are very different metrics. Please see Near Turtle to cells balanced: 20.8 kW with 2015 Leaf with 24 kW battery: Low kW? As expected? Battery losing capacity? - My Nissan Leaf Forum.

You had no idea what you were talking about at Model 3 to have <60kW Supercharging? and frustrated almost everyone who participated there.

Wws is correct. Some "50 kW" chargers are rated at some stupid voltage (but really can't get higher than 100 amps). 100 amps * 500 volts = 50,000 watts = 50 kW. Problem is, no EVs that I know of have 500 volt packs. So, let's say the voltage is 370 volts * 100 amps = 37,000 watts = 37 kW.

For example, Watch a Bolt EV at a ChargePoint Express 250 charge at up to 55 kW "The Express 250 charger, capable of up to 62.5 kW of DC output at up to 156A and 1,000V, is installed near the loading dock at ChargePoint’s headquarters in Campbell, California as".

I've used that exact DC FC (SAE Combo side, of course) at that location and that unit # (41) on my Bolt and have hit 55 kW when below about 55% SoC. After, it ramps down, just like in the video. It is capable of a high enough amperage at the voltages the Bolt and most EVs use for charging, which is why it can get above 50 kW. Multiply the voltage * amps at a given point in the video to get watts then / by 1000 to get kW.

 

[Reeler]

Do you have a Plugshare link to the CHAdeMO charger(s) you've used?

This is the one I tried with two different Model 3s. Both cars were above 50% SOC when they started, but I don't recall exactly what they were as my wife has her car set to miles and not percentage. I will try it again at a lower SOC.

In any event, that is beside the point here. Even at the maximum rate of the Chademo adapter, Tesla really needs to release a CCS-1 adapter. I don't know why Europeans are getting special features that North America does not.

There are many horrible stories about extremely long wait times at superchargers or ones that were inoperable due to vandalism. Just the system costs to Tesla for towing etc. would cover the meager NRE associated with this simple adapter that the Europeans enjoy.

 

[wws]

... In any event, that is beside the point here. Even at the maximum rate of the Chademo adapter, Tesla really needs to release a CCS-1 adapter. I don't know why Europeans are getting special features that North America does not.

There are many horrible stories about extremely long wait times at superchargers or ones that were inoperable due to vandalism. Just the system costs to Tesla for towing etc. would cover the meager NRE associated with this simple adapter that the Europeans enjoy.

In an anti-Tesla move, the German automakers pressured the German government to mandate CCS compatibility.

That said, it would be nice if Tesla decided to sell a CCS adapter in North America.

 

[cwerdna]

This is the one I tried with two different Model 3s. Both cars were above 50% SOC when they started, but I don't recall exactly what they were as my wife has her car set to miles and not percentage. I will try it again at a lower SOC.

In any event, that is beside the point here. Even at the maximum rate of the Chademo adapter

Those look like BTC Power 100 amp max units. So, the max you'll see in watts is the volts * 100 amps. You won't hit 50,000 watts (50 kW).

If you could take a pic of the label and add it PlugShare, that'd help with confirming.

 

[Rocky_H]

I don't know why Europeans are getting special features that North America does not.

Because the Teslas sold in Europe have always used the top half of the CCS system in their cars already as the default charge port. It was a lesser modification to make it a little bigger and add those two extra pins, but still maintain physical compatibility with all of the destination wall connectors, etc. etc. It is a whole different more complicated problem in North America, where Tesla has been using their own different, unique, proprietary plug and port shape that isn't a part of CCS.

 

[RandyS]

Those look like BTC Power 100 amp max units. So, the max you'll see in watts is the volts * 100 amps. You won't hit 50,000 watts (50 kW).

If you could take a pic of the label and add it PlugShare, that'd help with confirming.

I had this happen when the Model 3 was first able to use my Chademo adapter. I used it with an older Nissan DC FC and there was a discrepancy from the DC FC volt/amp display and what the car said it was charging at. Turns out that there is some default battery heating going on that consumed the difference in power, and the car was only displaying the power going into the battery (something like 34 kW) from what I remember.

 

[Eno Deb]

Because the Teslas sold in Europe have always used the top half of the CCS system in their cars already as the default charge port. It was a lesser modification to make it a little bigger and add those two extra pins, but still maintain physical compatibility with all of the destination wall connectors, etc. etc. It is a whole different more complicated problem in North America, where Tesla has been using their own different, unique, proprietary plug and port shape that isn't a part of CCS.

That argument still makes no sense to me. Why would it matter if the Tesla-end of the adapter is shaped like the upper part of the CCS adapter or not?

 

[MP3Mike]

That argument still makes no sense to me. Why would it matter if the Tesla-end of the adapter is shaped like the upper part of the CCS adapter or not?

Weren't they suggesting switching to a CCS Type1 port on the cars themselves so that no adapter was needed at a CCS stall? (As an alternative for offering an adapter.)

 

[Rocky_H]

That argument still makes no sense to me. Why would it matter if the Tesla-end of the adapter is shaped like the upper part of the CCS adapter or not?

Well, it's simple matters of space to fit the various port openings. All of the existing cars' ports and the wall connectors at the hotels and malls and such that are on the Destination Charging program are the proprietary Tesla plug. The cars do not currently have a J1772 port on them. Now look at the space inside the opening of the Model 3 charge port door. How are you going to be able to fit an entire CCS-1 Frankenplug IN ADDITION TO the Tesla proprietary plug? There's not room.

But if the USA cars were using the J1772 port already, then sure, they did make that opening large enough, you could make it a little bigger and just add the two larger pins below it and make it into the CCS-1 Frankenplug, and it fits. See?

That is what the port type in Europe enabled them to do. They already had half of it fit into there, so they didn't have to make room for a Tesla plug PLUS a CCS plug.

Same kind of reason why CHAdeMO is dying out. That stupid giant port opening on a Nissan Leaf has to fit a J1772 port side by side with a CHAdeMO. But on on the other brands of cars, the single CCS port covers both.

 

[Eno Deb]

Weren't they suggesting switching to a CCS Type1 port on the cars themselves so that no adapter was needed at a CCS stall? (As an alternative for offering an adapter.)

The posting that @Rocky_H replied to was clearly talking about an adapter like they have in Europe, not putting a CCS port on the car:

"Even at the maximum rate of the Chademo adapter, Tesla really needs to release a CCS-1 adapter. I don't know why Europeans are getting special features that North America does not."

 

[israndy]

Well, it's simple matters of space to fit the various port openings.

I thought the whole reason the Model 3 has such a large charging flap is to cover multiple ports:

Chinese Tesla Model 3 Spotted With Proper GB/T Connector

If the software for speaking CCS is already in the car, perhaps we need a 3rd party to make a retrofit charge port that supports both CCS1 and Tesla for the Model 3

 

[Rocky_H]

I thought the whole reason the Model 3 has such a large charging flap is to cover multiple ports:

Yes, it does have a bigger flap to fit more. I've seen that China example, but those are both smaller ones that aren't as big as a CCS. I'm not sure if you could fit a whole big CCS one and another smaller one next to it.

 

[Reeler]

Just have a CCS plug on the car and add a cable to the superchargers. Or, keep the current connector and provide an adapter. Problem solved.

 

[Rocky_H]

Just have a CCS plug on the car and add a cable to the superchargers. Or, keep the current connector and provide an adapter. Problem solved.

Solved? At which end do you expect to make the hundreds of thousands of changes needed on the things that already exist? The hundreds of thousands of cars or the hundreds of thousands of wall connectors? You seem to have the magical finger snap powers that can make all this happen in an instant with no effort, so Tesla should really hire you to take advantage of that.

 

[Reeler]

Solved? At which end do you expect to make the hundreds of thousands of changes needed on the things that already exist? The hundreds of thousands of cars or the hundreds of thousands of wall connectors? You seem to have the magical finger snap powers that can make all this happen in an instant with no effort, so Tesla should really hire you to take advantage of that.

Option #2: The CCS-1 to proprietary Tesla adapter would be childs play for them to do. The software stack in Europe already understands CCS so again very easy. You can keep your wall connector.

Option #1: For my wall connector, I use an adapter for charging my Bolt. If they put on a CCS-1 plug on new cars, sell an adapter for those with legacy wall connectors. I think the one that they give with all cars going the other direction is less than $100.

Tesla can charge for all of this. Plus, their new cars would only have to support one software stack more or less for Europe and US. China is converging on the CCS stack too. Simple, but some folks will insist beta max is still better than VHS.

 

[EfficientWatts]

China is converging on the CCS stack too. Simple, but some folks will insist beta max is still better than VHS.

China has their own standard, not CCS. They also have two separate ports for AC and DC charging. At least for DC it is also CAN and not PLC. No idea about the AC port (other than that the gender on the car is reversed vs the Type 2 connector, though I have a feeling you can hook up to it with an adapter)

China Is Developing New GB/T Fast Charging Standard At 900 kW

 

[Rocky_H]

Option #2: The CCS-1 to proprietary Tesla adapter would be childs play for them to do. The software stack in Europe already understands CCS so again very easy. You can keep your wall connector.

Sure, that part would be reasonable and is something they should do anyway, so people who want to use CCS stations can do so.

 

[vdiv]

Well, if it is a “child’s play” why hasn’t Tesla done it yet? There’s an apparent interest among Tesla owners.

 

[Reeler]

Now that the component suppliers for the China EV manufacturer are supporting CCS to deliver US cars, the software and hardware is being figured out to work with these standards.

A GB/T adapter cant be more difficult or kludgy than the current Chademo adapter in North America.

Especially if Tesla finally abandoned their proprietary approach, we would see more standardization. From the table above, you can see that Tesla's early lead is being lost and looks like weak sauce.

 

[miimura]

Now that the component suppliers for the China EV manufacturer are supporting CCS to deliver US cars, the software and hardware is being figured out to work with these standards.

A GB/T adapter cant be more difficult or kludgy than the current Chademo adapter in North America.

Especially if Tesla finally abandoned their proprietary approach, we would see more standardization. From the table above, you can see that Tesla's early lead is being lost and looks like weak sauce.

Regarding the table above, it doesn't show any information relative to V3 Supercharging. By the same token, it doesn't show liquid cooled CCS @ 500A either.