CHAdeMO Adapter (coming this winter)

[cwerdna]

^^^
The PDF linked to in the post at My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all assets also might be interesting...

I don't follow developments w/Blink and Ecotality that closely since I don't have one of their EVSEs and have used their infrastructure 0 times, so far. It is puzzling why Nissan decided to loan them $1.25 million (Ecotality Announces Bankruptcy, Gets $1.2M in Help from Nissan | PluginCars.com).

 

[Palpatine]

^^^
I don't follow developments w/Blink and Ecotality that closely since I don't have one of their EVSEs and have used their infrastructure 0 times, so far. It is puzzling why Nissan decided to loan them $1.25 million (Ecotality Announces Bankruptcy, Gets $1.2M in Help from Nissan | PluginCars.com).

It was likely DIP financing as part of the bankruptcy. In some companies where there is value, even in a bankruptcy, it makes sense to fund the company at a minimum level until a new owner can be found. If there was $0.00 in funding, then there would be even less recovery for the creditors. So the company that provides DIP bankruptcy financing is first in line to get repaid, even above secured creditors. It is in Nissan's interest for this charging network to survive and find a new owner.

It is a low risk loan for Nissan to make. They will get paid back first.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Interesting... I figured Nissan wouldn't ever see that money again.

My speculation is that they'd buy the charging network on the cheap and provide free/discounted charging to Nissan EV drivers. But apparently, others had conversations w/Nissan execs recently that threw cold water on the buyout speculation.

 

[widodh]

One thing we have to remember is that CHAdeMO is able to put out 500V DC, but the Model S battery pack is around 370V.

So if the connector is able to handle 125A you end up with: 370V * 125A = 46kW.

46000 / 200Wh = 230km/hour, about 140 miles/hour

So the adapter could be limited to ~70A or they assume a 25kW CHAdeMO station, I hope the latter.

If it is able to handle 46kW I'll buy it, 25kW? Nope, enough 22kW 3-phase charging stations available in Europe.

 

[Bipo]

First pic of the adapter:

Tesla presenta el adaptador CHAdeMO | forococheselectricos

 

[scottf200]

First pic of the adapter:

FYI, it has been on the shop page for a little while: http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s/products/chademo-adapter

Sure shows the monstrous size of the chademo compare to the Tesla plug tho!

 

[Sacrament055]

I wonder if those of us with 40Kwh packs will be allowed to purchase it for the $2900 price. That's significantly cheaper than having to pay $11k for the upgrade to the 60Kwh pack + $2500 for Supercharger access.

 

[doug]

I wonder if those of us with 40Kwh packs will be allowed to purchase it for the $2900 price. That's significantly cheaper than having to pay $11k for the upgrade to the 60Kwh pack + $2500 for Supercharger access.

I'm guessing no. Having the Supercharger capability enabled is likely a prerequisite to using this adaptor, and the "40kWh" cars need to be updgraded to 60kWh to use the Superchargers.

The pricing is interesting, though. Since Supercharger access is just software, you're essentially paying a one time fee to be able to use the network. The pricing of this adapter represents essentially a $600 discount on Supercharger access. Perhaps they're trying to incentivize 60kWh vehicles to sign up, or perhaps they think with Chademo access, they'll use the Superchargers less. Also interesting that 85kWh model Ss don't have a path for this "discount". That might reflect on Supercharger usage patterns of 85kWh cars versus those with 60kWh packs.

 

[liuping]

I'm guessing no. Having the Supercharger capability enabled is likely a prerequisite to using this adaptor, and the "40kWh" cars need to be updgraded to 60kWh to use the Superchargers.

The pricing is interesting, though. Since Supercharger access is just software, you're essentially paying a one time fee to be able to use the network. The pricing of this adapter represents essentially a $600 discount on Supercharger access. Perhaps they're trying to incentivize 60kWh vehicles to sign up, or perhaps they think with Chademo access, they'll use the Superchargers less. Also interesting that 85kWh model Ss don't have a path for this "discount". That might reflect on Supercharger usage patterns of 85kWh cars versus those with 60kWh packs.

The Tesla Gear page does not actually say SC access is enable when CHAdeMO is enabled. all it says is:

"For Model S without Supercharging enabled, on board hardware must be activated to use the CHAdeMO adapter."

Which could mean the HW for direct DC charging HW is enable for CHAdeMO but not for SC.

If the CHAdeMO includes SC access in the $2900, that would make it $100 less than people who paid for SC access up front and then added CHAdeMO ($2000 + $1000).

 

[Gizmotoy]

The Tesla Gear page does not actually say SC access is enable when CHAdeMO is enabled.

It would have to, or the pricing is silly. A 60kwh owner would, as you mention, pay $3000 for CHAdeMO + Supercharger, or $2900 for CHAdeMO only. $100 for Supercharger access is a no-brainer.

 

[dirkhh]

One thing we have to remember is that CHAdeMO is able to put out 500V DC, but the Model S battery pack is around 370V.

The 85s can charge with more than 400V IIRC - it's the 60s that are limited to about 325V... that's why for the 60s CHAdeMO could be really interesting. If they really enable 50kW that is 70% of the max speed we get from superchargers (it's less than half of max for people in am 85).

Actually, I didn't think this through... you say that CHAdeMO does 500V so that means 50kW is only 100A - so the 60s are still stuck at a lower rate, this time 32kW (assuming that 100A number) or close to 40kW (assuming the 125A that you mention). And 85s could get between 40 and 50kW.

 

[liuping]

It would have to, or the pricing is silly. A 60kwh owner would, as you mention, pay $3000 for CHAdeMO + Supercharger, or $2900 for CHAdeMO only. $100 for Supercharger access is a no-brainer.

I agree it seem too high with out SC, but it's also too low with it.

It would mean people who paid for SC access when they bought the car have to pay more for those who waited. That is not consistent with any of the other "add it later" pricing. For example adding SC after the fact is $500 more than at time of purchase. It seems strange that they would change course and now give a discount for waiting.

 

[doug]

The Tesla Gear page does not actually say SC access is enable when CHAdeMO is enabled. all it says is:

"For Model S without Supercharging enabled, on board hardware must be activated to use the CHAdeMO adapter."

Which could mean the HW for direct DC charging HW is enable for CHAdeMO but not for SC.

Possible, but not likely.

If the CHAdeMO includes SC access in the $2900, that would make it $100 less than people who paid for SC access up front and then added CHAdeMO ($2000 + $1000).

Less need to incentivise something the customer already has. The $500 difference between before and after delivery for this adapter tracks the supercharger access cost before and after delivery.

 

[markb1]

Possible, but not likely.

Actually, my interpretation is exactly that.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree it seem too high with out SC, but it's also too low with it.

It would mean people who paid for SC access when they bought the car have to pay more for those who waited. That is not consistent with any of the other "add it later" pricing. For example adding SC after the fact is $500 more than at time of purchase. It seems strange that they would change course and now give a discount for waiting.

Here's what I think they're saying:

Adapter: $1,000
Enabling CHAdeMO before delivery: $1,400 (possibly requires buying the adapter, too)
Enabling CHAdeMO after delivery: $1,900 (possibly requires buying the adapter, too)
Enabling CHAdeMO + Supercharging before delivery: $2,000
Enabling CHAdeMO + Supercharging after delivery: $2,500

 

[liuping]

Here's what I think they're saying:

Adapter: $1,000
Enabling CHAdeMO before delivery: $1,400 (possibly requires buying the adapter, too)
Enabling CHAdeMO after delivery: $1,900 (possibly requires buying the adapter, too)
Enabling CHAdeMO + Supercharging before delivery: $2,000
Enabling CHAdeMO + Supercharging after delivery: $2,500

Breaking it down like that makes it much more clear and everything is consistent.

 

[Crispix]

TM has already updated the description to alleviate confusion about the charge rate: "Take advantage of CHAdeMO’s network of 50 kW charging stations by enabling onboard hardware and purchasing an external adapter. CHAdeMO stations charge at the rate of approximately 150 miles of range per hour of charge with locations primarily in the Pacific Northwest."

 

[dsm363]

TM has already updated the description to alleviate confusion about the charge rate: "Take advantage of CHAdeMO’s network of 50 kW charging stations by enabling onboard hardware and purchasing an external adapter. CHAdeMO stations charge at the rate of approximately 150 miles of range per hour of charge with locations primarily in the Pacific Northwest."

Thank you. That clears things up significantly and good news.

 

[widodh]

Thank you. That clears things up significantly and good news.

Indeed! Awesome!

So the adapter can handle 50kW, I'm buying it!

 

[dsm363]

I have a friend in Texas who just finalized his order. If he adds it onto his 85kWh Model S is it only $400 or $1000?

 

[RandyS]

I have a friend in Texas who just finalized his order. If he adds it onto his 85kWh Model S is it only $400 or $1000?

Supercharging is already enabled on 85kWh cars, so all he has to do is buy the adapter for Chademo when they come out later...So it'll be $1000 at that time....