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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
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- bolt chevy Electric Vehicles review
And the Model S will be bigger than the Model 3....
I'm confident that Tesla will get great safety scores but it's premature to diss the crash safety of the Bolt before it gets tested.
As for 0-60, the S60 has a final drive ratio of 9.73 whereas the Bolt is 7.05 meaning that the Tesla would tend to launch better at low speeds but have relatively higher motor rpms at highway speeds. The Bolt has 98.7% of the S60's torque to curb weight ratio at the motor. It will be interesting to compare acceleration curves between the Bolt and Model 3 when they each become available but I think everyone assumes the Tesla will do better since they have staked part of their reputation on their performance numbers.
The point I was making is that the Bolt will be quite a bit better than half the useful power of an S60. It will be perfectly fine and will not by any normal means be considered a slow or weak performer.
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dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Conditions you have in the wide open upper midwest are not seen by 90% of the cars on the US roads. You could argue that the NE beltway sees them but they have a much higher population density and thus will have more superchargers/chademo chargers per sq. mile and can recharge along a trip like you describe.
Those of us that live below the 40th parallel see below freezing temps but we don't see the stuff you see nearly as often, and most of us live in a higher population density area were we don't make 200 mile trips.
I drive 15 miles one way to work. The coldest my pack has seen so far this winter is 20F outside temp and 45F in the center of the pack. I'm sure I'll see colder but it really isn't that much of an issue if you keep air in your tires and don't drive insanely long trips.
If I see 5 miles per kWh ideal I've seen 3 miles per kWh when it was 20F and I ran the seat heater on low, steering wheel heater on, and cabin heat set to 60F with the fan on the lowest setting.
I'm sure if you live further north you'd have to have the seat heater on high and the cost of keeping the cabin heater set to 60F would hurt range more.
But no matter what efficiency you get if you are too stupid to plug it in or stop when you need to charge it won't be any different than if you are too stupid to put gas in your car. Those are the people I'm talking about. If you are the type that drives in the snow with 1/8 tank of gas and has to call roadside assistance because you run out of gas then switching to an EV will just make the situation worse.
Anyone else can switch if the range is there, they'll figure out what their limits are. If they don't like those limits they can avoid the switch, but most can handle it even if they don't know it yet.
So even though I've lived in the upper midwest a couple of years, I'll say in plain language, nothing about Minnesota is mainstream.
marcad80
Member
I was comparing a Cadillac CT6 to a Dodge Dart today. I couldn't believe the Dodge Dart was half the price of the CT6! It even gets better gas mileage! Can't believe they can sell Cadillac's when there are Darts out there at those prices.
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What I find interesting is the design details from the article:
http://gas2.org/2016/01/12/chevy-bolt-details-begin-to-emerge/
From the image
We see the legacy of ICE design. The motor is in the front of the car, because that's where the ICE engines go. We see a drive shaft, driving the wheels. This, as Tesla has shown, is unnecessary and inefficient. But because that's the way they've always designed cars, that's they way they designed the Bolt.
http://gas2.org/2016/01/12/chevy-bolt-details-begin-to-emerge/
From the image
We see the legacy of ICE design. The motor is in the front of the car, because that's where the ICE engines go. We see a drive shaft, driving the wheels. This, as Tesla has shown, is unnecessary and inefficient. But because that's the way they've always designed cars, that's they way they designed the Bolt.
60% of US households have more than one car. I would call that pretty mainstream.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
Having read through today's posts, I am dismayed by some of the hate that the Bolt is getting, and I say this as a person who doesn't even really like GM all that much.
The Bolt is not a sexy sports car, but it wasn't ever meant to be one. It's a "tall wagon" or CUV (I know this designation is controversial, but CUVs have gotten lower in recent years due to fuel economy requirements) that's meant to be more functional than anything else. There's a lot that GM does right with the Bolt: spacious, functional interior, decent range, plenty quick acceleration for normal driving. It's a perfectly viable alternative to the Chevy Trax, and more importantly, could prove better than the Trax. This is important in convincing people that BEVs can be better than ICE cars.
Even more than that, this is just a glimpse of what is possible with smaller cars. Imagine what happens in future generations of BEVs from other companies. What if someone built something Bolt-sized, but with RWD (motor near rear axle) and Supercharger compatibility? Think a Mazda3-sized hot hatch: RWD, frunk, and 200+ mile range, and a MazdaSpeed3 or WRX that is better in almost every way than their ICE ancestors.
I don't know if the "troll" was intentional or not, but I don't think GM needs to troll Tesla.
The Bolt is good enough to stand on its own. Taunting Tesla is showing insecurity IMO.
The Bolt is not a sexy sports car, but it wasn't ever meant to be one. It's a "tall wagon" or CUV (I know this designation is controversial, but CUVs have gotten lower in recent years due to fuel economy requirements) that's meant to be more functional than anything else. There's a lot that GM does right with the Bolt: spacious, functional interior, decent range, plenty quick acceleration for normal driving. It's a perfectly viable alternative to the Chevy Trax, and more importantly, could prove better than the Trax. This is important in convincing people that BEVs can be better than ICE cars.
Even more than that, this is just a glimpse of what is possible with smaller cars. Imagine what happens in future generations of BEVs from other companies. What if someone built something Bolt-sized, but with RWD (motor near rear axle) and Supercharger compatibility? Think a Mazda3-sized hot hatch: RWD, frunk, and 200+ mile range, and a MazdaSpeed3 or WRX that is better in almost every way than their ICE ancestors.
I don't know if the "troll" was intentional or not, but I don't think GM needs to troll Tesla.
The Bolt is good enough to stand on its own. Taunting Tesla is showing insecurity IMO.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
While I agree with you that some of the hatred shown today was surprising (it's not like a football team where we have to cheer for one team, dammit!), GM was definitely trolling Tesla by arranging for a photo at that intersection. No doubt about it. And you're right, it shows their level of insecurity. Or maybe just immaturity of the people involved.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
No one is expecting Bolt to be a P90DL.
It is being measured against what we think Model 3 will be and what LEAF 2.0 will be.
And it does not measure up.
If we are wrong and the Model 3/LEAF 2.0 suck I will say I was wrong and regrade the Bolt.
Crossovers command a ~$3k premium in the market over wagons and hatchbacks.
So every wagon/hatchback/liftback/notchback is being called a crossover.
The Bolt is not a CUV.
It simply does not have the minimum ground clearance. That other CUVs don't have the maximum clearance of class leaders does not make the Bolt a CUV. When customers sit in it and see their view of the road they will know it. You can't block the sun with a finger.
It is being measured against what we think Model 3 will be and what LEAF 2.0 will be.
And it does not measure up.
If we are wrong and the Model 3/LEAF 2.0 suck I will say I was wrong and regrade the Bolt.
Crossovers command a ~$3k premium in the market over wagons and hatchbacks.
So every wagon/hatchback/liftback/notchback is being called a crossover.
The Bolt is not a CUV.
It simply does not have the minimum ground clearance. That other CUVs don't have the maximum clearance of class leaders does not make the Bolt a CUV. When customers sit in it and see their view of the road they will know it. You can't block the sun with a finger.
Bangor Bob
Member
The Bolt is FWD, that's some kind of reinforcing member or feature running down the center of the car. Maybe something to add rigidity to the battery pack top case? It's definitely NOT a propeller shaft going to drive the rear wheels, at any rate. Even GM isn't THAT dumb.
The bar for next gen EVs seems to have successfully been set at 200 miles. The Bolt is confirmed at 60kWh and at least 200 EPA. That's also the current report for the Leaf 2.0, and a very likely guess for the Model 3. I can't imagine another car company that wants to have a high selling EV announcing anything less at this point. I was surprised at how small the Bolt is, though. It's almost a foot shorter than the Leaf. I wouldn't have even thought you could fit so many batteries in a car that small. They will have a first mover advantage, but even if you don't trust Tesla to deliver the goods it seems like the Leaf 2.0 will ultimately sell a lot more that the Bolt just because the size puts it in a higher selling area.
As far as the supercharger advantage, although it's real I think some people over emphasize it. In 3 years of owning a Model S I've used superchargers on exactly on trip while putting on 30K miles, and we almost took my wife's ICE on that occasion (if I had a gas car also we almost certainly would have taken her SUV, I just wanted to see what driving with superchargers was like). However, I drive the Model S beyond the range of a first gen or even current Leaf on a regular basis. It's good for pretty much any daily driving and fine for most weekend trips as well (especially if there's destination charging).
As far as the supercharger advantage, although it's real I think some people over emphasize it. In 3 years of owning a Model S I've used superchargers on exactly on trip while putting on 30K miles, and we almost took my wife's ICE on that occasion (if I had a gas car also we almost certainly would have taken her SUV, I just wanted to see what driving with superchargers was like). However, I drive the Model S beyond the range of a first gen or even current Leaf on a regular basis. It's good for pretty much any daily driving and fine for most weekend trips as well (especially if there's destination charging).
exactly the $20k trax was also designed in south korea. total piece of junk. the bolt is not a ground up EV. it is based on the same platform as the trax. compromised hack EV just like the spark. fully engineered in south korea and to be made in mexico for export - the LG Bolt
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dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Probably a mistake, but the local newspaper is saying that a Chevy Bolt is responsible for hitting a pedestrian on the freeway....
Pedestrian killed on I-5 near Old Town identified | SanDiegoUnionTribune.com
Excerpt:
Sebele was struck by a Chevrolet Bolt and multiple other vehicles about 10:30 p.m. Thursday just north of the Old Town on-ramp, authorities said. Several of the drivers called 911 and at least one reported Sebele was trying to run from the east shoulder toward the center median, the CHP said.
Pedestrian killed on I-5 near Old Town identified | SanDiegoUnionTribune.com
Excerpt:
Sebele was struck by a Chevrolet Bolt and multiple other vehicles about 10:30 p.m. Thursday just north of the Old Town on-ramp, authorities said. Several of the drivers called 911 and at least one reported Sebele was trying to run from the east shoulder toward the center median, the CHP said.
Krugerrand
Meow
Maybe they are getting what they deserve considering the shots Mary Barra took at Tesla, their lobbying against Tesla's business model, and now the...
Every month someone else brings this up I quote myself and update the stats.Just keep in mind the original post was in reply to a much more negative post than yours.
Just form Telsa motors and sell another 200000. No one can spell Tesla right anyway.
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Regarding the troll shoot, GM was just visiting its failed factory. Probably not good to bring up that irony.
The Trax is a Top Safety Pick from the IIHS. It's an overall 5 star crash safety rating from NHTSA with 5 stars all around except for rollover which is 4 stars due to a higher center of gravity in a crossover/SUV (but fixed by a skateboard battery pack in a car like the Bolt or Model X).
Just what about the Bolt prevents it from qualifying as a "ground up EV"? What cars do you consider to be ground up EVs other than the Model S, Model X, and EV1 (because GM shredded it) and why exactly should anyone care? The battery pack in the Bolt is a structural member of the vehicle frame just like the Tesla models. It's a skateboard battery that doesn't take up any interior cabin space. Are you saying that ground up EVs have to be RWD with the motor in the rear? FWD cars have better traction and stability on ice and snow. Cars and trucks are mostly designed to be RWD to handle high levels of power to the road needed for ludicrous mode or towing RVs up mountain passes.
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