Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Good thing that's not what I said. With the MSRP of the Leaf at $29-35k the Bolt is not slated to be anywhere near double the price, despite aiming for more than twice the range. Which IS what I said.

Sorry, I accidentally omitted the double.

The problem is that if it's $37.5k in 3 years time for a city car then people will still have another car for longer trips and then ask themselves whether they really want to pony up $37.5k when they can pay a lot less for for a shorter range car, or a bit more for a larger car they can use on longer trips.

 

[GSP]

The Bolt, in person, looks like it has a prettty spacious interior. It is definately roomier than the Volt, which the EPA puts in the "compact" class. I would say the Bolt would qualify as an "intermediate" or "mid-sized" car. It has the room of at least a Prius liftback, or more likely as much room as the Prius V.

Although it is boxy looking (and kind of weird) it is not a sub-compact, mini-compact, or city car.

GSP

 

[stopcrazypp]

The Bolt, in person, looks like it has a prettty spacious interior. It is definately roomier than the Volt, which the EPA puts in the "compact" class. I would say the Bolt would qualify as an "intermediate" or "mid-sized" car. It has the room of at least a Prius liftback, or more likely as much room as the Prius V.

Although it is boxy looking (and kind of weird) it is not a sub-compact, mini-compact, or city car.

GSP

That conflicts with other reports that says it is i3 sized. Too bad GM released absolutely no specs, so it's hard to tell. And while the Volt is an EPA "compact" it has usable rear seat and cargo room worse than a lot of sub-compacts because of the tunnel battery.

 

[RobStark]

The concept Bolt may look roomy but lets see what happens when they have to install a real world 200 mile capable battery.

 

[scottf200]

... And while the Volt is an EPA "compact" it has usable rear seat and cargo room worse than a lot of sub-compacts because of the tunnel battery.

Actually this is quite a bit of hauling room in there. I've filled it multiple times.

 

[RobStark]

 

[Breezy]

The quote was "I don't see it [the Chevrolet Bolt] as a competitive threat just because I think all cars will go electric."

See? We're all friends here.:biggrin:

 

[JST]

While potential buyers/journalists/TMC members were intermingling the range figures, IIRC Tesla was pretty clear about this. Before they had EPA numbers for the P85D/85D, they gave out range numbers at a constant 65 mph for those models. But they also updated the website to include the same rating for the S85. Meaning that anyone who bothered to read would have seen that at a constant 65 mph the P85D and S85 were rated the same, and the 85D was 10 miles more, not 30. Apples to apples.

When Tesla published EPA numbers for the P85D/85D they removed the constant 65mph numbers from the website. So again apples to apples.

The real problem is that the P85D as delivered (and as still delivered) doesn't have the firmware (torque sleep) that enables the claimed 65mph and EPA ratings. Big screwup on Tesla's part, and it has fanned the flames over the numbers that Tesla proclaimed at launch.

Went to NAIAS today. Here is what the display says about the P85D's range.

 

[JST]

And here is the Bolt.

 

[Electroman]

FWIW, Leaf sold just a hair above 30k (not 27k) units in 2014.

 

[Hypx]

The concept Bolt may look roomy but lets see what happens when they have to install a real world 200 mile capable battery.

If they're not going to be making a dedicated platform for this car, then it's going to be pretty cramp inside (see Chevy Volt).

 

[GSP]

That conflicts with other reports that says it is i3 sized. Too bad GM released absolutely no specs, so it's hard to tell. And while the Volt is an EPA "compact" it has usable rear seat and cargo room worse than a lot of sub-compacts because of the tunnel battery.

No way is the Volt rear seat and cargo room worse than ANY sub-compact, including the i3. I like to think of it as more comparable to a Bently Contentinal Flying Spur with the four passenger back seat option.

The Bolt looks like an i3 from the outside, but when GM releases specs I expect it to be closer to the Prius' 94 ft^3 (EPA mid-size), than the i3's 84 ft^3 (EPA sub-compact).

GSP

 

[stopcrazypp]

No way is the Volt rear seat and cargo room worse than ANY sub-compact, including the i3. I like to think of it as more comparable to a Bently Contentinal Flying Spur with the four passenger back seat option.

I was shopping for subcompact hatches for a friend and saw the rear seat and cargo specs are significantly better for a lot of the popular subcompacts vs the Volt. This is esp. true after you factor in how the Volt's hump eliminates hip room (the only place where the Volt tends to have significantly higher measured numbers).

2015 Accent
Rear Seat Room in. (head/shoulder/hip/leg): 37.2 / 53.4 / 47.2 / 33.3
Cargo room (cu ft, cu ft seats down): 13.7, 47.5

2015 Fit
Rear Seat Room in. (head/shoulder/hip/leg): 37.5 / 52.6 / 45.1 / 39.3
Cargo room (cu ft, cu ft seats down): 16.6, 52.7

2015 Versa Note
Rear Seat Room in. (head/shoulder/hip/leg): 38.0 / 51.9 / 48.8 / 38.3
Cargo room (cu ft, cu ft seats down): 18.8, 38.3

2015 Yaris
Rear Seat Room in. (head/shoulder/hip/leg): 37.6 / 51.8 / 50.1 / 33.3
Cargo room (cu ft, cu ft seats down): 15.3, ~30 (Toyota doesn't publish)

2015 Volt
Rear Seat Room in. (head/shoulder/hip/leg): 36.0 / 53.9 / 51.2 / 34.1
Cargo room (cu ft, cu ft seats down): 10.6, 18

 

[GSP]

Those "popular sub-compacts" are actually rated as compacts by the EPA. Except for the Fit, which is a "small station wagon," and has more room than even the mid-size rated Prius (96 ft^3 vs. 94 ft^3).

The Volt is short on headroom and legroom in back, and the back is hard to get in and out of, but it is very comfortable once you are in (but only for the 95% of the population that fits however). The rear bucket seating is likely what makes it comfy, just like Bently's four passenger option (well, maybe not exactly ).

As for the Bolt, I will bet that it will be a mid-size, like the Prius and Bently's Flying Spur, not a sub-compact, like the i3. We will see.

GSP

 

[dhrivnak]

If they're not going to be making a dedicated platform for this car, then it's going to be pretty cramp inside (see Chevy Volt).

I take it you have never been inside a Tesla Roadster?? The Volt is huge, and yes I bought one as the Model S is just too big for us.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Those "popular sub-compacts" are actually rated as compacts by the EPA. Except for the Fit, which is a "small station wagon," and has more room than even the mid-size rated Prius (96 ft^3 vs. 94 ft^3).

EPA rating aside, those cars are called subcompacts on the market and compacts are a step up (into the Civic, Corolla, etc). So I guess you can say those cars have a "subcompact" body but a EPA compact interior. The Volt has a compact body (same class as the Cruze) with a compact/subcompact interior.

My point is Bolt looks to be a "subcompact" in terms of the market, not a "compact" in terms of the market (even though interior might be EPA compact). In other words similar to the Sonic which it's supposedly based on:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=35211&#tab4

Unless GM posts some specs or someone takes a measuring tape to the prototype though, we won't know.

 

[dhanson865]

EPA rating aside, those cars are called subcompacts on the market and compacts are a step up (into the Civic, Corolla, etc). So I guess you can say those cars have a "subcompact" body but a EPA compact interior. The Volt has a compact body (same class as the Cruze) with a compact/subcompact interior.

My point is Bolt looks to be a "subcompact" in terms of the market, not a "compact" in terms of the market (even though interior might be EPA compact). In other words similar to the Sonic which it's supposedly based on:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=35211&#tab4

Unless GM posts some specs or someone takes a measuring tape to the prototype though, we won't know.

subcompact vs compact vs midsize is a moving target

take a look at Honda Civic, click on the specs tab and see the size variation for all the cars named "Honda civic".

The Civic grew many times. Other cars grew then shrunk when they went too far, other companies grew the subcompact into a compact and created a new subcompact to replace it.

Too add to the fun of variations on a car name sometimes the 4 door version is a compact when the hatchback is a midsize. But the name of the car is the same so which would you call it?

All in all if you don't use objective numbers you'll just be yelling into the wind. Nobody cares what you or I think a compact car is. But we do have the EPA and European car designations and those use objective numbers.

Print out your favorite table from Vehicle size class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and take it car shopping with you. I won't care which one you use, but if you argue the tables are wrong you are missing the point.

And as to the buying public they adjust to the new terms that apply over time, they may get it wrong in the short term for some cars but people can be confused. It's not a simple comparison.

 

[Jeff N]

Reuters had a story yesterday quoting 2 sources as saying the Bolt will go into production at a Detroit factory in October 2016.

Today the well plugged-in Detroit News has a story saying the official GM announcement of production plans for the "Bolt" will be made next week at the Chicago Auto Show.

GM to announce new electric car to be built at Orion

 

[dhanson865]

Reuters had a story yesterday quoting 2 sources as saying the Bolt will go into production at a Detroit factory in October 2016.

Today the well plugged-in Detroit News has a story saying the official GM announcement of production plans for the "Bolt" will be made next week at the Chicago Auto Show.

GM to announce new electric car to be built at Orion

The Troy-based firm said it expects GM to produce in the high 20,000 to low 30,000 range of the Chevy electric car annually once production is ramped up, Schuster said.

More than a compliance car but not as many sales as Tesla or Nissan Leaf?

 

[scaesare]

More than a compliance car but not as many sales as Tesla or Nissan Leaf?

Again... another step indicating that other manufacturers may be getting in the game in a more serious way... no doubt in large part due in large part to Tesla.

This announcement would seem to quell two significant objections in this thread:

- The previous announcement was just that, with no concrete plans to actually build the Bolt

- It would be sold as "compliance car" only in accordingly low numbers

I wonder how folks view this now...