Clarification from Tesla on AEB

[DJ 240V]

I wasn't quite sure what to expect of AEB and it's spectrum of usage. So asked Tesla and they clarified well. Hope you find it useful too.

Thank you for contacting Tesla Vehicle Support. Here is some information about the AEB.

When Automatic Emergency Braking has reduced the driving speed by 25 mph (40 km/h), the brakes are released. For example, if Automatic Emergency Braking applies braking when driving at 56 mph (90 km/h), it releases the brakes when the speed has been reduced to 31 mph (50 km/h). Automatic Emergency Braking operates only when driving between 5 mph (8 km/h) and 85 mph (140 km/h). Automatic Emergency Braking does not apply the brakes, or stops applying the brakes, when: • You turn the steering wheel sharply. • You press the accelerator pedal. • A vehicle, motorcycle, bicycle, or pedestrian, is no longer detected ahead. Automatic Emergency Braking is always enabled when you start Model S. To disable it for your current drive, touch Controls > Settings > Driver Assistance > Automatic Emergency Braking > Disable.

 

[boaterva]

So, is this AP1.0 or AP2.0? Because if it's 2.0, I can't believe all that didn't include some mention of the current limit for 2.0 AEB of 28 mph.

 

[chillaban]

It's good information, but that's the same information that's in the manual.

The key point is that AEB is not meant to be the "Jesus take the wheel" of accident avoidance where you just cover your eyes and pray that they car magically stops itself. The brake application is supposed to buy you time and get your adrenaline pumping, and hopefully in the 1-2 seconds it bought the driver, he would look up from his Harry Potter movie or wiping his dashboard and go "HOLY CRAP" and slam on the brakes himself….

 

[chillaban]

So, is this AP1.0 or AP2.0? Because if it's 2.0, I can't believe all that didn't include some mention of the current limit for 2.0 AEB of 28 mph.

It's definitely AP 1.0. Comes straight out of the AP1 era manual that we have online copies of. CR incorrectly reported that AEB is good up to 90mph, but it's not.

 

[boaterva]

Gotcha. A lot of the recent discussion has been about 2.0 since they 'just' started getting it.

Edit: and it does seem like a lot of the support is copy and paste. We can do that ourselves, and do, here.

 

[croman]

It's definitely AP 1.0. Comes straight out of the AP1 era manual that we have online copies of. CR incorrectly reported that AEB is good up to 90mph, but it's not.

But they were correct about AP2 limitations.

I believe OP has hw2 so they gave info that isn't correct for OP.

 

[chillaban]

But they were correct about AP2 limitations.

I believe OP has hw2 so they gave info that isn't correct for OP.

Sure, I'm not saying CR wasn't correct about the AP2 limitations, or that Tesla is giving the right answer to AP2 owners right now. I bet if I asked about AEB, they'd cut and paste me the exact same info, despite me being on a 17.14.xx release that currently does not get AEB at all.

 

[DJ 240V]

But they were correct about AP2 limitations.

I believe OP has hw2 so they gave info that isn't correct for OP.

Yes I have AP2 and the latest software . I had read about the 28 mph limitation on this forum and hence the reason to clarify and was pleased to see 85mph. So is that not the case ??!!

 

[croman]

Sure, I'm not saying CR wasn't correct about the AP2 limitations, or that Tesla is giving the right answer to AP2 owners right now. I bet if I asked about AEB, they'd cut and paste me the exact same info, despite me being on a 17.14.xx release that currently does not get AEB at all.

I just called them this morning. I believe the phone support are painfully aware of hw2 AEB issues. The guy I spoke with was pretty much writing service tickets left and right to get people updates.

Yes I have AP2 and the latest software . I had read about the 28 mph limitation on this forum and hence the reason to clarify and was pleased to see 85mph. So is that not the case ??!!

No. That's AP1 they told you about. They can be useless if you don't make them useful. I only call. Those people seem to know more.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Yes I have AP2 and the latest software . I had read about the 28 mph limitation on this forum and hence the reason to clarify and was pleased to see 85mph. So is that not the case ??!!

As others noted this looks like just a copy and paste out of the AP1 manual. You should check the manual on your own car. It would be more accurate for your particular vehicle.

 

[Tam]

...Hope you find it useful too...

So if a Tesla runs at 20 mph and AEB is activated (within the acitve range between 5 and 85 mph). What is your understanding after reading the answer?

20 mph driving speed - 25 AEB = no collision at all?

Does that mean at 25 mph and below, because AEB will reduce the speed by 25 mph, there would be no collision at all?

 

[JohnnyG]

So if a Tesla runs at 20 mph and AEB is activated (within the acitve range between 5 and 85 mph). What is your understanding after reading the answer?

20 mph driving speed - 25 AEB = no collision at all?

Does that mean at 25 mph and below, because AEB will reduce the speed by 25 mph, there would be no collision at all?

Straight from the manual......
"
Automatic Emergency Braking automatically applies braking to reduce the impact of a frontal collision (see Automatic Emergency Braking on page 86).

Warning: Automatic Emergency Braking is not designed to prevent a collision. At best, it can minimize the impact of a frontal collision by attempting to reduce your driving speed. Depending on Automatic Emergency Braking to avoid a collision can result in serious injury or death.
"

 

[Tam]

Straight from the manual......
"
Automatic Emergency Braking automatically applies braking to reduce the impact of a frontal collision (see Automatic Emergency Braking on page 86).

Warning: Automatic Emergency Braking is not designed to prevent a collision. At best, it can minimize the impact of a frontal collision by attempting to reduce your driving speed. Depending on Automatic Emergency Braking to avoid a collision can result in serious injury or death.
"

Thanks! The math could lead to misconception of no collision but your citation is very useful to clear up that whatever the maths say, Tesla AEB is to reduce the force of impact and not to avoid a collision.

 

[oktane]

Dumb. Why stop at an arbitrary 85 mph?

 

[dandelot]

Oktane asks why stop at 85?

If you are driving over some (arbitrary) speed you better be paying attention. At higher speeds the time available for the system to understand what is going on is reduced. IMO that's the point: if the time to respond is too short anything the system (emergency brake) could do is as likely to be a mistake as real.
Simple things like deep shadows sometimes confuse Tesla AP 2.0 simple cruise control at 70 MPH
--- any action over 85MPH
will likely just be a mistake and lead to an accident.
Better to just leave it to the human. IMO. (A brief interval where a group proposed to not let a certain non-Tesla brand run track days with modern cars was related
directly to automatic braking outside the driver's control.)

 

[jddssc121]

It's still very frustrating to me that a $25K Honda Accord has better AEB functionality than a Tesla w/ AP2.

 

[chillaban]

It's still very frustrating to me that a $25K Honda Accord has better AEB functionality than a Tesla w/ AP2.

Does it really though? I've had many systems that guard up to 120mph or 200kph but they fail to recognize very common scenarios like stopped offset trucks or a sudden cut in.

At least with ap1, despite on paper it didn't have better AEB than other cars, I found that it was more accurate and comprehensive than any other FCW/AEB system I've used.

These systems are really hard to compare on paper.

 

[croman]

I believe Tesla's intention is to have the world's best AEB. I support them taking as long as it takes but I also was told by several Tesla employees, including my OA and DS, that my car would have the entire passive and active safety technology by December 31, 2016. Even Tesla's ordering page said so (before 2017). So what I'm frustrated about is the lack of communication and adherence to timelines. That being said, I've managed to avoid needing AEB thus far. I hope I can stay just as lucky until AEB is fully ready.

 

[jddssc121]

Does it really though? I've had many systems that guard up to 120mph or 200kph but they fail to recognize very common scenarios like stopped offset trucks or a sudden cut in.

At least with ap1, despite on paper it didn't have better AEB than other cars, I found that it was more accurate and comprehensive than any other FCW/AEB system I've used.

These systems are really hard to compare on paper.

Well for starters, they function over 28mph, and they are capable of a [near] full stop, not just shaving under 30 mph off the speed.... So i'd say "yes" they are better

 

[chillaban]

Well for starters, they function over 28mph, and they are capable of a [near] full stop, not just shaving under 30 mph off the speed.... So i'd say "yes" they are better

But have you actually tested the system to determine how well the system works in practice?