Constant brake check for false positives in traffic.....UHG!

[quickstrike12]

I’m writing this post a bit as a way to vent but also to hear others thoughts on this. I am at wits end with trying to drive to work using AP lately on 2019.8.5. First day or so I thought I liked it and called it an improvement. But I take it back. After a couple weeks now in Dallas Fort Worth rush hour traffic I’ve gotten where I just can’t use it on most freeways.
What is with the tracking of a car(turns silverish grey) in adjacent lanes and then slowing and refusing to accelerate. Or worse yet is when it does this actually tapping the brakes quickly and dropping 10-15MPH suddenly. OMG I’m gonna either get rear ended or shot here my city. This is different than ghost braking we used to get a lot over shadows and sunlight etc....where the car would just suddenly slam on the brakes. That sucked too but haven’t had those incidents in quite awhile. This is different and just as annoying.
I’m actually pleased with the lateral navigation improvements that have come over the last couple years. It doesn’t ping pong, it is smoother at changing lanes and overall feels more confident in the steering department.
But speed control. Now that’s another issue. The constant acceleration and decelerations are terrible. It’s like driving with a teenager for the first time. In normal driving in heavy traffic my power gauge is swinging from 100 Wh/m in orange all the way dow to -50 regent in the green. It’s back and forth. I’m getting whiplash (exaggeration).
Just so I end on a positive thought
I do love the single press of turn signal stalk o change lanes as opposed to fully clicking it and then unclicking it after the change.

Anyone else seeing similar results when in heavy city traffic? Do the engineers at Tesla drive these things daily like we do? Or are they all driving some development Beta with HW3 etc...and never seeing the things we see everyday.

 

[Pwdr Extreme]

I’m on 19.12 and had .6 previously. Both apply the brakes quite often when there is no need for it. This is on the same uncrowded Montana freeways I’ve been driving everyday so it’s a true apples to apples comparison of 18.50 I had before for quite some time. Once in awhile it will “phantom” brake, but that is quite rare. When passing traffic, especially trucks, it will hit the brakes for no reason approximately 10% - 20% of the time.

Since we’re venting, It’s also very annoying that NOAP will pull out to pass someone (which takes FOREVER) sit in the passing lane for a moment, then slow down to pull right back in behind the car it just pulled out to pass. This has happened several times and only happens if it’s a slight overtake, like 1-2mph. In those situations I’ve actually started manually applying extra throttle just to make sure it will pass the car.

And finally, is it just me, or does TACC / AP accelerate REALLY slowly in traffic when leaving stop lights with cars in front of you? Quite often I’ve had a box truck (delivery van, UPS, etc.) who was beside me at the light actually accelerate faster and change lanes in front of me between me and car I was following because the Tesla accelerates so slowly. And that’s not just because they were driving aggressively. It accelerates slower than 90% of the traffic around me. And Bozeman, MT really isn’t an aggressive driving town. I can’t imagine how you guys in the cities manage to use AP in town, unless it’s just my car...

Venting over =)

 

[Hood7]

I'm in a S75D built late Feb 2018 (MCU1, AP2.5). When I first started driving it in March 2018, it would do this phantom braking thing while on AP; also, about half the time on my commute to work it would try to take a left-side exit out of the HOV lane (same exit every time, one that would be VERY unsafe to take a 70mph!) requiring me to wrestle control back to stay on the highway. Then around mid-year, one of the updates fixed that and it's been smooth sailing ever since... until I got 2019.8.5 last week, and now it's back to phantom-braking and trying to get off that left-side exit at 70mph. Damn! Also, I've joined the chorus of voices complaining about the audio streaming's new stuttering/glitching that came with 2019.8.5 ... From a MCU1/AP2.5 perspective, this is a one crappy "update".

 

[luckyj]

Yeap, same for me on 2019.8.5 and .12. Lots of brake checking. I suspect that mention of supposed "blinker detection" for cars wanting to come into your lane is really just due to this behavior and not actually AP detecting blinkers. Also in .12, I notice that AP often shows there are extra lanes around me when there are not (not even shoulders are present).

As far as NoA with no confirm, I find that it's generally okay in lighter traffic, but in moderate traffic the number of silly decisions it tends to make is sometimes more of a burden to deal with than just turning no confirm off and doing lane changes myself.

 

[sillydriver]

I have an AP1 car still on 2018.50.6. I haven't used AP except for interstates for a while but tried it the other day on a divided country highway which intersects unmarked side roads, including some driveways. A car ahead of me in the right lane braked to turn off into their driveway. That car was very far ahead, so that I normally wouldn't even have slowed from the 55 I was traveling, knowing that car would be off the road by the time I passed or, if they decided to abort their turn, I could easily move into the left lane in time. Instead, my car braked suddenly and hard. There was a car right behind me in my lane. I kicked the accelerator to avoid brake checking into them. So no more AP on non-interstates for me. I'm sure this will all get taken care of on AP 2/3 cars, but I doubt there's much further development for AP1.

 

[quickstrike12]

I am finding lately that the “relaxed” driving state of using AP that I’m always telling friends and family and potential Tesla buyers, is not the case anymore. I try hard each day to use my AP, and I find that the constant attention I need to keep giving it like canceling a lane change or forever adjusting the TACC speed setting as it keeps going up and down with different hwy changes or curves etc..., and of course my favorite using the accelerator pedal when it keeps slowing down on the freeway or starting from a stop in traffic. I’m constantly messing with it, and then I will get frustrated and just turn it off and have a nice relaxing drive the rest of the way to work. I sometimes forget it is a great driving car, and that’s why I bought it.
None the less I sure hope these things can be corrected at some point. I hope we haven’t reached a saturation level of our hardware such that I will need to get HW3 to get any better. I’m not especially wanting FSD anytime soon, and doubt it’s going to be that amazing initially. So I don’t want to pay for FSD to get the new Hardware.

I was so excited about getting a new update to 8.5........wish I had my 50.6 back at the moment.

 

[Bmac]

Yes, exactly the same for me on 20 19.8.5. It seems like I need to provide much more attention to the car than on prior updates because of the random breaking and needlessly slowing down.

The other item I see is the lack of what I call “human anticipation”, which Tesla does not have. An example, on a 2 lane road, an oncoming car makes a left-hand turn approximately 100+ feet front. My brain tells me that at my current speed, that car will complete its turn with a significant amount of safety time before I get to that intersection. But not Tesla as it starts to hit the brakes as soon as it senses the car which obviously annoys anyone in back. I figure with the amount of processing power on board, it should be able to anticipate how fast that car will be out of the way before I arrive at the intersection without needlessly breaking

 

[sillydriver]

Yes, exactly the same for me on 20 19.8.5. It seems like I need to provide much more attention to the car than on prior updates because of the random breaking and needlessly slowing down.

The other item I see is the lack of what I call “human anticipation”, which Tesla does not have. An example, on a 2 lane road, an oncoming car makes a left-hand turn approximately 100+ feet front. My brain tells me that at my current speed, that car will complete its turn with a significant amount of safety time before I get to that intersection. But not Tesla as it starts to hit the brakes as soon as it senses the car which obviously annoys anyone in back. I figure with the amount of processing power on board, it should be able to anticipate how fast that car will be out of the way before I arrive at the intersection without needlessly breaking

Agree - that is exactly the kind of fail I gave an example of about three posts up. "Human anticipation" is a good way to describe it.

 

[KyleDay]

I also saw this on 19.8.X firmwares. 19.12 is better. Demonstrably, considerably better. Almost perfect in fixing the phantom braking.

Just wait. It'll be better.

 

[Pwdr Extreme]

I also saw this on 19.8.X firmwares. 19.12 is better. Demonstrably, considerably better. Almost perfect in fixing the phantom braking.

Just wait. It'll be better.

I disagree. I’m on 19.12 and mine brakes for no reason constantly. Way, way worse than last years software.

 

[conman]

Phantom braking will get a lot worse before it gets better

 

[BPSoCal]

Seriously Tesla, TACC sucks now

Yup. Same here. Posted on another thread under Driving Dynamics. Lots of people are having these issues.

TACC is making people car sick with the constant accel/decel phantom braking.

 

[Raechris]

Here are my thoughts after being on .9 for the last month. Agree with all comments above - BUT - it feels as if it took two steps back and has now sprung 4 forward. I think this is a new NN to handle a bunch of new corner cases, eg red light run warn, yield to merging car, line warning AP didn't engage. My car even yielded when a cross street car stopped too far over the line waiting for me to go by.
It felt like training a puppy again and wondered why it devolved but now feels a lot better after several weeks in the new FW. The constant brake/accept on NoA was dramatically improved going from 1 to 2 and even 4.

 

[K-D-R]

Glad I found this. I’m experiencing phantom braking and almost got rear ended because of it. Same feelings about being less relaxed in the car using AP. hope it’s fixed.

 

[diamonds2]

All of the above has happened to me, in regards to TACC and EAP (MS 100D June 2017 HW2.0). Very depressing. Used to be "silky smooth" until 2019.4.2. I now have 2019.8.5 and no improvement. Hoping that when I get 2019.12 this will be ironed out.