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I'm no fan of lawyers, but it's true the "personal choice" crowd completely ignores the personal responsibility part of equation. Just substitute driving drunk for wearing a mask.

"It's my choice to drive drunk. I enjoy it and I'm willing to take the risk. If somebody is afraid of that, they can choose to stay home".

460x1240.jpg
 
I bought the slightly fancier kind (a month or 2 ago) that has the oled 2 color display and in fact you can press the button and rotate in thru 3 or 4 display modes and orientations. can't do that with old style segment led versions.

the little moving graph is useful as I can see a diff in the shape if I'm doing it right or not.

similar to this one; and some have the pi% which may also be good info to have.

https://www.amazon.com/Oximeter-Fingertip-Saturation-Batteries-Included/dp/B0872W8HHY/

and then there's the diy scene (which I have not checked but might be interesting)

pulse oximeter – Hackaday
 
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I don't see how K-12 schools can open in fall. I also don't see how we can tolerate not sending kids to school in the fall.

I don't see how big universities outside of major cities can open in the fall.

I listener to one professor's podcast who believes that universities' current optimism is a lie. They don't want students and parents making other plans. They want the tuition checks.
 
This is the real curious situation. Why is CA rising at the same time as TX and AZ. States I have theorized are spiking due to general disinterest across a wide set of their populations in masks and social distance. CA does seem not to fit with these sorts of theories and data.

Mask use in CA and general attitude towards covid seemed to be similar to Northeast region. Europe has so far seen no resurgence.

If this happens in CA does it mean the whole world is on track for resurgence? That one cannot open if ones neighbors have cases? Maybe we would assign this in CA to behavior changes due to social distance fatigue? That isn’t good for US in total. Maybe it’s due to weather and indoor/outdoor behavior? That’s also not good. Maybe it’s just a different sub population picked it up this round in CA so it’s spreading into a different set of people. Seems unlikely.

CA is a very curious case. I hope your local struggles in stopping the growth are successful and everyone you know stays healthy!

You have to look at spread per county. This is a good site for that
Per capita covid-19 cases and deaths

If you click on the confirmed cases per day and go through time you can see the outbreak spread in California. The outbreak in California and Arizona really got going on the AZ/CA border. A few weeks ago Imperial County in California was the only real hot spot. Since then it grew throughout California, up the San Joaquin Valley, and is now beginning to heat up in the Bay Area.

In Washington state Yakima county has been a mess for a month, but the western part of the state (where most of the population is has been OK). Yakima county is one of the biggest agriculture counties in Washington and it's been cherry picking season the last month. In California, the Imperial Valley has the most harvesting activity this time of year, but the crops in the San Joaquin Valley are beginning to ripen now. Most of the crops grown in the San Joaquin Valley (which has the 3 biggest agriculture counties by crop value in the world) come in mid to late summer.

Yuma county in Arizona grows a lot of spring lettuce that is harvested in May and June.

In some places agricultural outbreaks are contained to the area where they started. Oregon had an outbreak at a fish processing plant on the coast that has now calmed down. The current hot spot in eastern Oregon was started at a big church service about a month ago in La Grande. Outbreaks in the SE corner of South Dakota have not spread to the rest of the state, but Iowa (just across the border) is a mess.

In California and Arizona, it doesn't look like the agricultural outbreaks were very well contained and the virus has spread to more populous counties. Los Angeles also has been a warm spot this last month in part because when they relaxed restrictions, too many people went nuts and flocked to the beaches. I grew up in Los Angeles and never understood the beach thing, but it's a popular thing to do in the area and there was pent up demand when the restrictions were eased.

The spread in California around the agricultural regions may be due to the fact that this time of year migrant workers are now moving from the Imperial Valley to the San Joaquin Valley for the start of harvest season there. My sister lives in Kern County with a partner who is very high risk. She was confident a few months ago that the outbreak there will be mild, but while it's a smaller outbreak there than other parts of the valley, it's growing. Kern County has the advantage of having a higher average education than most of the rest of the valley because it's the center for California's oil business and there are a lot of college educated people there who have a better understanding of the precautions. My sister is very conservative politically, but she has been wearing a mask when out and going out very little since early March. Her partner has been essentially under house arrest.

Many of the regions of the country where governors actively discouraged social distancing and mask wearing have widespread outbreaks with little hope for containment any time soon.

Gov. Greg Abbott issues statewide mask order

"In a groundbreaking move on Thursday, Gov. Greg Abbott issued a statewide mask order.
This means every Texan is required to wear a mask or facial covering when out in public. According to the governor, the order applies to all counties in the state with more than 20 confirmed COVID-19 cases."

"COVID-19 is not going away," said the governor in the announcement above published on his social media accounts. "In fact, it's getting worse."

No shite Sherlock. Remains to be seen how much use it is, many many 'free' people in Texas.

It is a bit like starting a burn ban when the forest is already a conflagration, but it is a good sign that some governors who were doubting how dangerous this is are starting to get a clue.

The lesson from San Diego County is that even with quite high mask compliance (people are really quite good about it here), as long as people are allowed to congregate in restaurants indoors (without masks of course), it will continue to spread with R greater than 1.

So masks alone are unlikely to stop the spread. They need to remove the superspreading events from the mix as well. (This is the value I see in focusing on classifying outbreaks, I think - it allows you to see what activities to shut down immediately. The number of outbreaks alone is not a metric for success though - but if you have zero, that implies you are no longer allowing any high-risk congregate settings.)

Anyway, mandatory masking is essential, but I don’t think we’re going to see sustained declines in AZ/FL/TX/CA until indoor dining, etc., are banned. I hope I am wrong because without declines immediately, the numbers are going to get frighteningly high - along with the deaths, which are now steadily rising in AZ/FL/TX.

As bad news as it is for the restaurant industry, I just don't think indoor dining is going to be safe for a while. For places where you can eat outdoors, outdoor restaurants might be safer, but we'll continue to get take out.

I believe if we allowed people that got sick from COVID-19 to sue those people they have been in contact with that REFUSE to wear masks, this attitude would change.


And from a societal standpoint, it is an interesting development that in the past 10 years or so the mindset of "freedom" has become unlimited. In the past, it was understood that one's freedom had reasonable bounds (i.e. I'm not free to go out and shoot anyone for any reason, it just doesn't work that way). When freedom infringes on the freedom and personal liberty of another individual, it is clear that there should be an obvious limitation.


So yeah, if those people that get sick are allowed to sue those people that don't comply with "common sense" guidelines and regulations designed for the safety of the population, perhaps we might see some of these attitudes change.

My 0.02.

It's a misinterpretation of libertarianism. In a true libertarian philosophy, if someone is doing something that someone else doesn't approve of or is even dangerous to myself, but it does not put others at risk or cause harm to others, it should be allowed. However as part of the same theory, dangerous behavior that puts others at risk or harms others should be controlled.

The concept has been warped as it's moved into mainstream political thought. Both parties have partially embraced libertarian ideas, but there is a segment out there that has warped it into a pretzel with an attitude that basically boils down to "I can do anything I like and you can't stop me, but if I disapprove of anything you're doing, that needs to be banned." None of the adherents to this have actually thought it through, but that's what their behavior says.

So if they don't want to wear a mask and expose the rest of the population to a deadly disease, that's their "right", but if they happen to hate lawn bowling that should be a crime. It's nuts and completely unworkable in society.

True libertarians wear masks at times like this because they see that not wearing a mask is putting others at risk. Faux libertarians use it as an excuse to be a dangerous jerk.
 
Cool thread! In short, it means we're screwed (every state!) until we take additional suppression measures. I hope someone comes up with some ideas soon!

https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1279187556106723333?s=20

From the German paper linked to on that Twitter burst somewhere
Development of the reproduction number from coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 case data in Germany and implications for political measures

"The development in Germany suggests that NPIs (non-pharmaceutical interventions) can be partially released based on an established new culture of social distancing, face masks and mutual care within the population. However, any release of measures delays reaching low incidence numbers. The strategy to reduce daily new cases to a sufficiently low level to be controlled by contact tracing and testing turned out to work in Germany. This requires a responsible behaviour of the population, optimised contact tracing techniques and extended testing capacities in contact clusters."

So yeah, unless people and measures catch up in the US - we're screwed.
 
I don't see how K-12 schools can open in fall. I also don't see how we can tolerate not sending kids to school in the fall.

I don't see how big universities outside of major cities can open in the fall.

I listener to one professor's podcast who believes that universities' current optimism is a lie. They don't want students and parents making other plans. They want the tuition checks.

Once school starts, we will see bigger spikes. Most children may be asymptomatic or have mild symptoms, but they will bring it home.
 
I don't see how K-12 schools can open in fall. I also don't see how we can tolerate not sending kids to school in the fall.

I don't see how big universities outside of major cities can open in the fall.

I listener to one professor's podcast who believes that universities' current optimism is a lie. They don't want students and parents making other plans. They want the tuition checks.

We're going to need to implement a two tier education system, but getting governments to comply is going to be difficult too. In K-12, some kids don't have a viable learn from home option and they are going to need some kind of classroom teaching. But other kids have the internet access, computer, and environment at home where they can learn from home.

Washington state has had an online learning academy for years. It was set up for home schoolers to have actual teachers work with home schooled kids. I knew someone who was a home schooler (she was kind of a nutter, but I worked with her husband for a while) who had "unschooled" her kids in Indiana, but when they moved out here we talked them into getting the kids into the Washington online academy. When they tested her kids two of the four were multiple years behind their peers. One who was a naturally curious kid was slightly ahead in some areas.

It worked well for her kids. The quality of the education was fairly good. But Washington has over a decade head start on other states.

Unfortunately this also sets up another dichotomy between affluent kids and poorer kids, but I don't see any way around it. The poorer kids and their teachers will be at more risk, but they aren't going to learn any other way. In places with good weather some instruction can be done outdoors, which should help with transmission, but there will have to be some indoor work.

With K-12 it's going to boil down to whether we want to treat poor and better off kids completely equally or we want to protect as many as we possibly can. I don't see a good, equitable solution.

With colleges and universities, a lot of instruction can be done online, but there is a problem with the STE part of STEM coursework. Science and Engineering education require a fair bit of lab work and that can't really be done remotely. At my school, most labs were already limited to 20 people and they ran a lot of labs throughout the week to cover the lecture courses the labs were paired with. I don't see much in the way of ways more social distancing can be done there, though labs are more spread out than a lecture to begin with.
 
With colleges and universities, a lot of instruction can be done online, but there is a problem with the STE part of STEM coursework. Science and Engineering education require a fair bit of lab work and that can't really be done remotely. At my school, most labs were already limited to 20 people and they ran a lot of labs throughout the week to cover the lecture courses the labs were paired with. I don't see much in the way of ways more social distancing can be done there, though labs are more spread out than a lecture to begin with.

Some labs can be done if there is a virtual environment to do so. Even pilot training can be done in part via simulations. It would be different from real life but not impossible.
 
I don't see how big universities outside of major cities can open in the fall.

I listener to one professor's podcast who believes that universities' current optimism is a lie. They don't want students and parents making other plans. They want the tuition checks.

Universities that are actually trying to be successful will probably try to do pooled testing. I personally think it is doubtful that even that will work with current levels of disease circulating (at least in the high disease locations like AZ, FL, and TX, or whatever happens to be hot in August). However, we have about 6 weeks to get the sh**show under control again. I am not sure we will.

https://twitter.com/paulmromer/status/1279067975522418688?s=20

I said earlier here we needed to get cases to zero. That's a key element in reopening. You need to get cases to zero. Then you can reopen (and you will need to continue to suppress because it will come back).

Elementary schools also need to go back, of course. But there has to be an actual plan. You can't just fire and forget. It'll be a disaster.
 
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Universities that are actually trying to be successful will probably try to do pooled testing. I personally think it is doubtful that even that will work with current levels of disease circulating (at least in the high disease locations like AZ, FL, and TX, or whatever happens to be hot in August). However, we have about 6 weeks to get the sh**show under control again. I am not sure we will.
UC San Diego is planning on testing basically the entire student population every month in addition to social distancing measures, saying that they've done modelling showing that this is enough to keep the virus under control. I hope it works!
 
And too many of those people shouting for "freedom" are against women having their own personal choice about abortion, or gay marriage and other things that have NO personal effect on them - unlike masks or vaccines that can protect other people.
I refuse to be anyone's slave and wear a mask. Most masks (short of maybe the N95) have no effect on stopping transmission of this flu-like virus (and the manufacturer of the most common mask even has a disclaimer as to how ineffectual the mask is against it). Abortion up to and including birth is an abominable and inhumane practice, as is the marketing and selling of fetal body parts (Planned Parenthood's cash cow). Gay marriage wasn't enough obviously because now we've moved onto to countless genders, drag queen story hour for children, and transgender restrooms (no matter what stage of transition you claim to be in). I wonder if you're as critical against the rioters and scores of protesters or are giving them a pass because most of them are wearing (ineffectual) masks. It's amazing that protesting is allowed but churchgoing is not. The hypocrisy is endless.

It's also hilarious that someone is still advocating for zero cases before restarting life again. In what universe is that possible short of a full-on totalitarian state? The resistance to the idea of herd immunity is also an interesting social study, as are those who made passes for governors deliberately infecting nursing homes (the people who are most susceptible to any respiratory illness).
 
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I refuse to be anyone's slave and wear a mask. Most masks (short of maybe the N95) have no effect on stopping transmission of this flu-like virus (and the manufacturer of the most common mask even has a disclaimer as to how ineffectual the mask is against it). Abortion up to and including birth is an abominable and inhumane practice, as is the marketing and selling of fetal body parts (Planned Parenthood's cash cow). Gay marriage wasn't enough obviously because now we've moved onto to countless genders, drag queen story hour for children, and transgender restrooms (no matter what stage of transition you claim to be in). I wonder if you're as critical against the rioters and scores of protesters or are giving them a pass because most of them are wearing (ineffectual) masks. It's amazing that protesting is allowed but churchgoing is not. The hypocrisy is endless.

Lol. Stay off the bong.