Degradation of the Community...

[Mark Z]

When the opportunity arrives to do something unique, attempt to accomplish it. Getting your mind on another task can help.

Viewing the solar eclipse in totality is a great example. Those who accomplished the goal were a very happy group. The experience was unforgettable. It helps put life into perspective. Degradation of the World carries on, but I remember the totality of the eclipse and look forward to more important adventures in the future.

 

[dhanson865]

Instead of banning people for a viewpoint, I'd use a different measure as to how they are contributing to the health of the community ... do they give out a larger percentage of disagrees than the rest of the community? That would be indicative of just stirring the pot or even trolling. (Note, I said 'give out' - people receiving disagrees for having a contrary opinion are still contributing.) And I'd also say that after a certain number of posts where someone is just rude to other forum members, they should be banned. Over and done.

If person A says 2+2=7 and person B says no, 2+2 =4 should person B be banned for correcting an error in logic? Shouldn't an error in logic be disagreed with?

If you don't disagree then uninformed new members can read misinformation and it can spread. If you do disagree constructively you can inform not only the person you disagreed with but the lurkers and other posters in the forum that may read the exchange.

 

[bonnie]

If person A says 2+2=7 and person B says no, 2+2 =4 should person B be banned for correcting an error in logic? Shouldn't an error in logic be disagreed with?

If you don't disagree then uninformed new members can read misinformation and it can spread. If you do disagree constructively you can inform not only the person you disagreed with but the lurkers and other posters in the forum that may read the exchange.

Of course it should be corrected - a reply always works well. I didn't mention anything about constructive replies, only that those with a higher than average disagrees given out should be looked at by forum administration.

Bottom line is that for those that seem to do their best to turn every thread negative (those that haven't hidden their profile, anyway), have a MUCH higher percentage of dislikes given out. If you look at those profiles, you'll rarely find them explaining why they dislike a post, just hit and runs.

 

[jeffro01]

Go figure... The same people who are constantly disliking my posts are the same people who this thread was created to address.... Wouldn't you know it, the EXACT reason I created this thread proved it's point entirely... I don't know what else I can do to illustrate my point other than to ask people to read this thread... I'm getting tired of the SAME people disliking my posts simply because I made them as some sort of juvenile attempt to hit back at me or something... I'm almost to the point where I'm ready to just dump the list of members this community could do without on a permanent basis. Is that helpful? No, I don't think so actually which is why I haven't done it. However, here we are on page 8 and it's become painfully obvious what the problem is...

For those of you who have a say in this, here is what's going to happen, the small but obscenely vocal minority are going to drive off useful members who are wayyyy past tired of the same drama repeated over and over again...

I'm not sure there is a good solution, which is also part of why I started this thread as well and I think that aspect of it has been very productive. I made my solution clear, but I also respect the fact it may not be the best/correct/acceptable solution...

Jeff

 

[Jgdixon]

I have been part of this forum for about 5 years, while I am not an active poster here is my take. I do not come to the forum as often as I used to. I am the President of our local Owners Club and many members have indicated the same thing.
Is this because of the concerns mentioned here? Possibly. I also believe that as we became more comfortable with our vehicles and Tesla we didn't seek out others advice or opinions as often.
There also have been some conflicts in the past between those of us who were part of an actual club and TMC.
I believe that TMC saw clubs as a bit of a threat. That seems to have changed as TMC has now reached out to many clubs to offer a dedicated thread and more of an alignment between both parties. We have not taken advantage of that and many other clubs haven't either. I also think that it is only natural that as the Tesla Owners community grows the forum does too. So there is a natural dilution of good posts and in turn the civility of the posts goes downhill because more people are involved. Back in the day we were all early adopters but now Tesla is more main stream.

 

[Ulmo]

If what someone writes on a forum like this would not be said publicly in the presence of others, then perhaps what is written should be rethought and rewritten to be more collegial.

Very true, and that applies to all communications online, but unfortunately is not often observed.

I like this, and I roughly try to do it, sometimes.

I'm thinking of finding a good editor off-line and uploading it from there to TMC, but for some reason, every time I try that, the line endings get all messed up, and every line becomes its own paragraph and the whole message becomes one big run-on section of many paragraphs each on one line.

 

[Doug_G]

First of all, derailing a thread into nasty arguments, when the whole point of the thread is discussing the level of discourse... well that is just meta.

So... for the record:

1. Accusing someone of trolling or being a troll is a personal attack, and this is against the terms of service for the forum. Those posts are being moved to snippiness.
2. There are a whole bunch of completely off-topic posts about AP2 etc. For lack of a better place they're following the point 1 posts into snippiness.
3. Cross-posting the same content in multiple threads is also against the terms of service.
4. Please try to RAISE the level of discourse in the thread where we're talking about HOW BAD the level of discourse is!

 

[Electroman]

YES. I like your 2 & 3

 

[ohmman]

YES. I like your 2 & 3

#4 is the one. It's a bit of an "all of the above, and more." And it applies generally to this entire forum.

 

[dhanson865]

Of course it should be corrected - a reply always works well. I didn't mention anything about constructive replies, only that those with a higher than average disagrees given out should be looked at by forum administration.

You said

I'd use a different measure as to how they are contributing to the health of the community ... do they give out a larger percentage of disagrees than the rest of the community? That would be indicative of just stirring the pot or even trolling.

and you said

those with a higher than average disagrees given out should be looked at by forum administration.

Well, I'd say as an active member here I probably have a larger percentage of disagrees than rest of the community (I'm assuming that means the average of the community not some arbitrary cutoff that hasn't been specified).

So I see a disconnect between constructive dialog and a simple ratio of disagrees.

 

[bonnie]

You said

and you said

Well, I'd say as an active member here I probably have a larger percentage of disagrees than rest of the community (I'm assuming that means the average of the community not some arbitrary cutoff that hasn't been specified).

So I see a disconnect between constructive dialog and a simple ratio of disagrees.

Active or non-active, I'm talking about ratios. Why would a more active member have an unusually higher percentage of disagrees given out?

Clicking the disagree button is not constructive dialogue, imo.

 

[ohmman]

Well, I'd say as an active member here I probably have a larger percentage of disagrees than rest of the community (I'm assuming that means the average of the community not some arbitrary cutoff that hasn't been specified).

I already said I don't think disagrees are a valuable method of inference to valuable participation, so I'm not judging. But since you're admitting to it, I am curious why you personally think they're beneficial to constructive discourse.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Go figure... The same people who are constantly disliking my posts are the same people who this thread was created to address.... Wouldn't you know it, the EXACT reason I created this thread proved it's point entirely... I don't know what else I can do to illustrate my point other than to ask people to read this thread... I'm getting tired of the SAME people disliking my posts simply because I made them as some sort of juvenile attempt to hit back at me or something... I'm almost to the point where I'm ready to just dump the list of members this community could do without on a permanent basis. Is that helpful? No, I don't think so actually which is why I haven't done it. However, here we are on page 8 and it's become painfully obvious what the problem is...

For those of you who have a say in this, here is what's going to happen, the small but obscenely vocal minority are going to drive off useful members who are wayyyy past tired of the same drama repeated over and over again...

I'm not sure there is a good solution, which is also part of why I started this thread as well and I think that aspect of it has been very productive. I made my solution clear, but I also respect the fact it may not be the best/correct/acceptable solution...

Jeff

I'm proud of my dislikes. It's all about perspective.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Damn, dude! You should be very proud.

 

[dhanson865]

I already said I don't think disagrees are a valuable method of inference to valuable participation, so I'm not judging. But since you're admitting to it, I am curious why you personally think they're beneficial to constructive discourse.

If someone comes into an established thread a day later and chooses to read up to current I think it's imporant for misinformation to be marked.

If a post has 1 like and 0 disagrees, it will be more likely to be perceived as correct or trustworthy to the uninformed.

If the same post has 1 like and 1 disagree someone might give it a different weight and take more time to consider why there is disagreement.

If the post instead had 0 likes and 1 disagree I'd expect that to weight the post negatively making misinformation less likely to be trusted.

If the numbers are high like 20 likes and 3 dislikes or vice versa I think that adding another to the pile doesn't help as much as when the numbers are low or close to even.

I simply use disagree to mean "to any lurkers or new forum members don't accept this post as established fact" This can be tricky if a post has multiple statements, maybe 3 are true and I'd absolutely want to give the post an informative but 1 is false and I want to give a disagree. In such a case I'm more likely to give neither as it sends a mixed message if I pick one.

 

[ohmman]

If someone comes into an established thread a day later and chooses to read up to current I think it's imporant for misinformation to be marked.

If a post has 1 like and 0 disagrees, it will be more likely to be perceived as correct or trustworthy to the uninformed.

If the same post has 1 like and 1 disagree someone might give it a different weight and take more time to consider why there is disagreement.

If the post instead had 0 likes and 1 disagree I'd expect that to weight the post negatively making misinformation less likely to be trusted.

If the numbers are high like 20 likes and 3 dislikes or vice versa I think that adding another to the pile doesn't help as much as when the numbers are low or close to even.

I simply use disagree to mean "to any lurkers or new forum members don't accept this post as established fact" This can be tricky if a post has multiple statements, maybe 3 are true and I'd absolutely want to give the post an informative but 1 is false and I want to give a disagree. In such a case I'm more likely to give neither as it sends a mixed message if I pick one.

Thanks. I hadn't thought about it as a way to flag posts for readers that might not be consuming the follow-ups. It's still not likely to be my style, but I can definitely see where it might be helpful. In a way, related to the "green bars" discussion we had above.

 

[Shock-On-T]

Anyone know why my comment below would have been moved to snippiness?
It certainly wasn't meant that way, and had already been given a Like by someone.

 

[bro1999]

It is posts like this (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2272477/) that are the true community "degraders". A guy comes in, gives a blow by blow account of how his beloved Tesla got raped and defiled at a service center, and then you have the tin foil hat conspiracy theorist crowd accusing him of making up the whole story (what? So they can short TSLA stock? Dafuq?), then later accuse him of making up the part about Tesla officials reaching out to him on here! Ridiculous!

 

[kort677]

I gave a like because there is a lot of reality in the post above.

 

[malcolm]

These things go in cycles.

New firmware. New facelifts. New vehicles.

We admire disruption when it affects others only.


My rule is simple: Would I be happy for any close relative to read any of my posts - not just what they say, but what they say about me?

That and: Don't click Disagree, click Helpful and Like ironically.