Double vision (ghosting) at night through windshield?

[loganintx]

What I've done to make this forum easiest to keep up with is create a bookmark for the main Model X forum page and each of the 5 subforum pages. In browsers like Google's Chrome, you can right click on a bookmark folder and tell it to open every link in the folder which it will do in all new tabs. Then you can methodically go through tab at a time and scan the unread posts. I always click Mark Forum Read after opening all the tabs too. This makes it easy to identify the unread threads/posts.

for example, if you open the Interior / Exterior subforum in a new tab you would see the Windshield issue thread is at the very top since it's still quite active.
Model X: Interior & Exterior

 

[AnOutsider]

What I've done to make this forum easiest to keep up with is create a bookmark for the main Model X forum page and each of the 5 subforum pages. In browsers like Google's Chrome, you can right click on a bookmark folder and tell it to open every link in the folder which it will do in all new tabs. Then you can methodically go through tab at a time and scan the unread posts. I always click Mark Forum Read after opening all the tabs too. This makes it easy to identify the unread threads/posts.

for example, if you open the Interior / Exterior subforum in a new tab you would see the Windshield issue thread is at the very top since it's still quite active.
Model X: Interior & Exterior

If you are in a forum/subforum, the search button at the top of the site defaults to only searching that forum/subforum. So to search all of Model X, all you would need to do is head to the Model X forum and start searching.

 

[ohmman]

You may also reference some search and other forum usage information I've put together here.

 

[Keith]

What I've done to make this forum easiest to keep up with is create a bookmark for the main Model X forum page and each of the 5 subforum pages. In browsers like Google's Chrome, you can right click on a bookmark folder and tell it to open every link in the folder which it will do in all new tabs. Then you can methodically go through tab at a time and scan the unread posts. I always click Mark Forum Read after opening all the tabs too. This makes it easy to identify the unread threads/posts.

for example, if you open the Interior / Exterior subforum in a new tab you would see the Windshield issue thread is at the very top since it's still quite active.
Model X: Interior & Exterior

To be fair: The name of this thread didn't have the word "ghost" in it, the issue was referred to as double vision until it was recently updated. Also this thread was no longer on the front page of the Model X forum, it would have taken clicking through pages to find it (likely page 2?). Also, not everyone has time to read every new post on every subforum in the Model X forum. So it would've taken some work to find the thread especially considering the fact that the thread had used different terminology for the issue.

On the other hand: If posters don't try at least a little to search for their issue before posting, we will end up with several duplicate threads for issues, making more work for the rest of us who are looking for information on our issues, and ultimately the threads will need to be combined like these threads were, creating more work for the admins. The forum will become somewhat of a mess.

Conclusion: I personally would prefer all the information to be in one place, but sometimes it can be hard to find, especially if it's a new issue and you're not sure how to describe it.

 

[Mark Z]

Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters or Tesla Service Center?

 

[elguapo]

I am a sub 500 production VIN and definitely have the issue. My question is will they fix it or say it's "within tolerance"?

 

[ohmman]

I am a sub 500 production VIN and definitely have the issue. My question is will they fix it or say it's "within tolerance"?

My feeling is that if you cannot tolerate it, then it's not within tolerance. Tesla has seemed to be pretty understanding on that point in my two plus years of service experience with them. So if it's intolerable to you, make sure you are clear about that when you discuss it with your service advisor.

 

[Ritalyn]

I notice this in my 47xx vin. Maybe it is height but any street light depending on angle I am looking at it. Doesn't really bother me and I don't see how it is fixed. I would love to know if someone had this fixed or if attempted fixes keep the problem.

 

[Coolcarx]

All three of my kids can see the double light effect. It is more obvious at a distance. The double light starts totally above the car then drops as you get closer. This was taken with iphone today around 3pm misty rain. I can honestly say while driving for 33yrs, i've never seen this before. That even includes my $500.00 1972 AMC Hornet.

 

[K-MTG]

All three of my kids can see the double light effect. It is more obvious at a distance. The double light starts totally above the car then drops as you get closer. This was taken with iphone today around 3pm misty rain. View attachment 174825View attachment 174826

Is it a big deal or can it just be ignored...I am just a little OCD

 

[AnOutsider]

Noticed this last night too. I was actually driving and my wife was in the 3rd row relaxing. She couldn't see it from there, and when she climbed up to the passenger seat she couldn't see it from there either.

 

[Roentgen]

Not noticeable until you look for it. After that, game over. Cannot unsee. I thank you worthy ladies and gentlemen on this forum for that.

I will say that I don't find it as distracting as some of the people on this board have said. Passengers only notice it after I've pointed it out to them. One of my buddies says he thinks it's no big deal at all.

I think the refraction is probably at a fixed (relative) distance above the source - the farther the source is, the more apparent because the source looks smaller. As the source gets closer and larger, the refraction appears to meld into the source.

Had to add for Captain Sunshade: Still do not have one.

 

[vandacca]

All three of my kids can see the double light effect. It is more obvious at a distance. The double light starts totally above the car then drops as you get closer. This was taken with iphone today around 3pm misty rain. I can honestly say while driving for 33yrs, i've never seen this before. That even includes my $500.00 1972 AMC Hornet.

You have to pay extra for the ghosting. Cheap cars have very basic windshields and you'll never see it. This artifact comes from more advanced windshields with many layers of features.

The unanswered question in my mind is does the ghostly come naturally from the many layers or did the manufacturing process not do a good enough job of combining these layers into a single cohesive piece. I can imagine that gaps between the layers would make the ghostly much worse.

 

[Skotty]

Assuming this is a real problem, you really need to gather an X and one or more other cars (perhaps an S and maybe another car or two), and especially an X without the problem (if there is one), get them together on the same night, and take a whole bunch of pictures showing the difference between the different vehicles. Take pictures at two or more angles (someone sitting high in the vehicle vs someone sitting low) for each vehicle.

I see the "issue" in the provided pictures so far, but it is still unclear to me if this is within what should be expected or if it is excessive and a flaw in the windshield. You will need some solid evidence to convince the service centers and in turn the Tesla home base that there is a real problem here. As a few others have pointed out, some amount of ghosting is expected -- because, physics an all -- so it's critical to clearly demonstrate the level of ghosting is excessive.

 

[Keith]

Assuming this is a real problem, you really need to gather an X and one or more other cars (perhaps an S and maybe another car or two), and especially an X without the problem (if there is one), get them together on the same night, and take a whole bunch of pictures showing the difference between the different vehicles. Take pictures at two or more angles (someone sitting high in the vehicle vs someone sitting low) for each vehicle.

I see the "issue" in the provided pictures so far, but it is still unclear to me if this is within what should be expected or if it is excessive and a flaw in the windshield. You will need some solid evidence to convince the service centers and in turn the Tesla home base that there is a real problem here. As a few others have pointed out, some amount of ghosting is expected -- because, physics an all -- so it's critical to clearly demonstrate the level of ghosting is excessive.

In my windshield, it's definitely not within what should be expected, and I've tried looking through the windshield at different angles and still see it to a similar degree. I also took photos through the window in my door to show what a regular window should look like. I've never seen this before in any car I've owned, to any degree.

Left is through the side window, right is through the windshield.

 

[K-MTG]

In my windshield, it's definitely not within what should be expected, and I've tried looking through the windshield at different angles and still see it to a similar degree. I also took photos through the window in my door to show what a regular window should look like. I've never seen this before in any car I've owned, to any degree.

Left is through the side window, right is through the windshield.

Is it annoying or bothersome? What is your VIN?

 

[Keith]

Is it annoying or bothersome? What is your VIN?

I think annoying is a good word for it. I can ignore it for a little while, but then a car brakes in front of me, or I come up to an intersection with 3 particularly bright red lights, and I feel like I'm having to refocus my eyes or I'm looking through a slightly dirty window.. It comes from every source of light at night. I'm really hoping they will fix this.

 

[vandacca]

I think it can be a lot more than just annoying. Subconsciously, your brain will see the blurry view as a focusing issue and your eyes will try to change focus (in and out) to fix it. In many cases, people can develop eye strain and/or headaches from your eyes constantly trying to focus a blurry image.

 

[ohmman]

Left is through the side window, right is through the windshield

Remember that side windows are tempered glass, unlike the front windshield. So that's not a fair comparison.

 

[Ulmo]

Here are some photos I took to show the issue on my windshield.

View attachment 173875

While I would love to see physicists figure this out and solve it (make it do less bad things), I have to say that in those photographs, the reflected images are clearer than the originals; it's easier, for instance, to tell that the lamp is a left turn signal in the second and third reflection than in the original image of the left turn signal. In the parking lot lamps, you can clearly see the individual LED bulbs in the lanterns in the reflected images, but the original is a bright blur. May I offer a mental fix for this for some people? The mental fix is easy: just tell your brain that it is getting a wider amount of information from these reflections, and your brain will understand. It will say "aha, I know what that is: those are that car headlamps, or that sun reflection, or some other bright spot. Not only that, I can see it thrice over, and interpret each individual image of it for more information." You may come to enjoy the reflections and work well with them. The brain will see this as a good thing, and use the information fully. The brain is fully capable.