I can only speak based upon my own experience, but if someone is contemplating the purchase of this car and plans on driving it more than 50,000 miles, I'd strongly urge that buyer to consider the extended warranty. Anyone who is interested in buying a used Model S with a decent number of miles should probably look for one that comes has the extended warranty. I'm hardly a proponent of extended warranties, but in this case I'd say it's money well spent.
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Drive Unit failure symptoms and thresholds for replacement
- Thread starter supratachophobia
- Start date
I can only speak based upon my own experience, but if someone is contemplating the purchase of this car and plans on driving it more than 50,000 miles, I'd strongly urge that buyer to consider the extended warranty. Anyone who is interested in buying a used Model S with a decent number of miles should probably look for one that comes has the extended warranty. I'm hardly a proponent of extended warranties, but in this case I'd say it's money well spent.
I've bought a number of high end cars, and several of them had issues. It happens. But a major concern is that all this warranty service - frequent swapping out of an expensive part or subsystem like the drive motor - will be eating up the profits that Tesla needs to build up the company. I suppose they get the drive motor from a supplier. Probably by now they have someone from the home Tesla office living at the supplier until they get the problem straight (at least that is what Toyota and Mercedes would do). BTW, I have had to have the A/C compressor on my LEAF replaced twice, and also service to fix clunking sound on start & stop. And yes, I agree with getting the extended warranty on the Tesla. Lots of things to go wrong with all the cutting edge stuff.
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
The irony here is that I always thought we'd be having battery issues. But so far the battery, it's management system, range, etc. is rock solid. Go figure.
And yes, extended warranty is mandatory for the mileage we are putting on these things.
The one thing I learned from our 2001 and 2004 Prius is that a large battery is a non-issue. (The 12V battery is another story.) I've had no drive-train problems in ~43K miles, but I did get the extended warranty. I don't have any hypothesis to explain why some cars--and I believe it's just a few--have had multiple drive train problems.
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
I have been following forums for all of my cars since 1997. I have gotten rid of three cars based on being scared by the few bad experiences that show-up on the forums. There are always people reporting problems on all car forums. I have decided that I am not going to let these stories scare me anymore. I love this car too much to be brought down. I'm not going to let it happen. I'm going to drive the car and enjoy it. The vast majority are very reliable. My car is almost a year old, it has 15K miles and hasn't been in for service at all....not once.
I'm convinced that the way people drive has a lot to do with frequent failures. I'm not sure what it is that's causing multiple failures with these few Teslas, but as I eluded-to earlier, it could be something as simple as not stopping completely before switch from reverse to drive. I have driven with people who don't do that so is it possible that something similar to that could be the root of the problem?
My last car had issues with front suspension lower control arms on some cars. There were people who had them replaced 3, 4, 5 times. Mine never had a problem. I thought, well maybe those people have a habit of stopping hard to where the car's momentum keeps trying to go-forward and then the car settles back. If you've stopped hard like that, you'll know what I mean. Could it be that people who stop like that habitually was causing the LCA's to go bad so frequently? Perhaps. I don't stop like that. I let-off of the brake before it happens and perhaps that's why my LCA's didn't need to be replaced.
These are not excuses for quality, but the point is that in my opinion, these multiple failures on one car must have something to do with driving habits.
I'm convinced that the way people drive has a lot to do with frequent failures. I'm not sure what it is that's causing multiple failures with these few Teslas, but as I eluded-to earlier, it could be something as simple as not stopping completely before switch from reverse to drive. I have driven with people who don't do that so is it possible that something similar to that could be the root of the problem?
My last car had issues with front suspension lower control arms on some cars. There were people who had them replaced 3, 4, 5 times. Mine never had a problem. I thought, well maybe those people have a habit of stopping hard to where the car's momentum keeps trying to go-forward and then the car settles back. If you've stopped hard like that, you'll know what I mean. Could it be that people who stop like that habitually was causing the LCA's to go bad so frequently? Perhaps. I don't stop like that. I let-off of the brake before it happens and perhaps that's why my LCA's didn't need to be replaced.
These are not excuses for quality, but the point is that in my opinion, these multiple failures on one car must have something to do with driving habits.
I doubt it. My first DU was replaced within the first 500 miles, the rest were at 8,000-10,000 mile intervals. I haven't changed the way that I drive, and I always stop fully before changing from Reverse to Driver and vice versa.
Being someone who has had over 20 service visits in 20 months of ownership, I couldn't disagree with you more. Many of the issues I've had have no relation to how the car is driven. I don't want to get into a long list here, but things like wipers, chargers, battery heaters, cooling fans, and the variety of creaks and sounds that have come from various parts of my car have nothing to do with my driving. The only thing that I *do* do is that I drive a lot. 25k miles per year. Much of that is highway driving, so if by driving habits you mean driving on the highway a lot, then perhaps my driving habits are contributing to my issues, but if you're implying that I'm somehow abusing my car or driving it "rough", you couldn't be further from the truth. I take very good care of my car.
That said, I think a bigger contributor to number of issues found (and relevant to this thread) is the threshold at which someone considers something a problem. While I've had several issues that have actually caused alerts and errors on the car and needed parts to be replaced to ensure my car doesn't break down, several of the issues were related to how much you're willing to live with a certain hum or sound or noise that some part of the car makes. I'll admit I'm probably picky in this respect just because any unexpected sound really bugs the heck out of me while I'm driving. I've done several long road trips with drive units making the humming sound and it really drives me crazy. Some others might not notice it or not be as bothered with it, so not bother asking to get it fixed. I suspect this has something to do with it.
Again, this is exactly where I'm at. But try 20 visits in less than half that time. There is definitely a level of putting up with a problem. Squeaks, rattles, trim pieces are all things we should not have to deal with in the first place, but the SC takes care of them as they should and I'm satisfied with that (note: not necessarily happy about the problem, but satisfied it's been taken care of).
The major mechanical problems, like fans, chargers, and drive-units may or may not be related to how the car is driven. But a very important thing to realize is that a driver should not pay 100k+ for a car and then be able to easily "out-drive" it. I do not think you should be pulling the ABS fuse and doing smoky burn-outs, but if you decide to get on the freeway and utilize the ability to get up to 60mph in under 4 seconds, then there shouldn't be any issue with that; even if you do it everyday. They advertise the car as being capable to an extent, and if it is turning out it isn't, that is very frustrating. Hence the direction this thread has taken.
**Now rightly so, the car has the ability to limit it's performance, for example the "limp mode" people talk about. I'm ok with this since it means Tesla is trying to prevent excessive wear and tear. And it seems the implementation of this is very good. When I've needed the car to perform, it's never told me no. What I am suspecting is that they would have to excessively nerf the car to prevent DU problems on RWD vehicles to the point where it would not perform as advertised the majority of the time. As an owner, this is what I would have a problem with as would everyone else.
Again, as kennybobby stated, if the DU problems can be traced to a worn part, then I say they either re-design it (unlikely and more expensive) or make that a regular maintenance item. That way, a customer never has to deal with it failing and they rarely have to deal with the symptoms. Although, I will add that for ampedrealtor, the latter would not have necessarily saved him that first DU.
I raised this question in the infamous 691HP thread. I submit the AWD eliminates/mitigates the conditions of stress that would lead to a pre-mature DU failure (possibly pushing it out past the 8yr mark depending on driving style). It would do this by a 50/50 split in stress on 85D drivetrain, and XX% reduction to rear motor on P85D with the slack being picked up by the front motor. The two things that would prove this would be DU unit failure rates on AWD and 4-wheel dyno on P85D; neither of which we have BTW.
Price and how high end a car is has little correlation w/reliability. There are a ton of "high end" cars w/not very good reliability, partly because that automaker and/or that model is notorious for not very good reliability.
There are plenty of not-"high end" cars that are very reliable.
If one didn't look at reliability ratings and bought a new car, and one bought 100 new Hondas/Acuras or Toyotas/Lexuses and bought say 100 BMW, Mercedes or Audi, of comparable price range, I'd bet you some big $ that the those 100 Hondas/Acuras or Toyota/Lexuses would need fewer repairs within warranty and within the first say 10 years than the latter set.
Yep. Tesla absolutely needs to get this under control.
First symptoms av 13 k km, this video was made after 42 k km, passing 56 k km and the noise is worse. Have been granted a new DU, was supposed to happen in august, delayed til september and is now delayed with no spesific date.. I am embarrassed driving down the street, and concerned by the lack of DUs available, and the feeling that they havent solved the problem.
You are welcomed to listen to my clunk and milling sounds.
DU noise- Tesla Model S 85 - produced in january 2014 - YouTube
You are welcomed to listen to my clunk and milling sounds.
DU noise- Tesla Model S 85 - produced in january 2014 - YouTube
davidc18
Active Member
The clunking sounds like the motor mounts are loose. What ever the problem is its bad and needs to be fixed.
First symptoms av 13 k km, this video was made after 42 k km, passing 56 k km and the noise is worse. Have been granted a new DU, was supposed to happen in august, delayed til september and is now delayed with no spesific date.. I am embarrassed driving down the street, and concerned by the lack of DUs available, and the feeling that they havent solved the problem.
You are welcomed to listen to my clunk and milling sounds.
DU noise- Tesla Model S 85 - produced in january 2014 - YouTube
Gizmotoy
Active Member
Mine made the same noise and they replaced the entire drive unit. They supposedly there's a common suspension component that can also make the same noise, but they checked everything and isolated it to the drive unit. I waited a few months and eventually had it replaced, which resolved the issue for a time.
Does anyone know what a "fluttering" sound might be when you take your foot off the accelerator and the regen kicks in? I'm also wondering if anyone has gotten any humming in their steering wheel with sort of a moaning sound? I initially thought it was road noise, but it definitely is not. Could both of these be DU related?
They are waiting for DUs. .. short supply it seems. ...
Now I get the Clunk after 10-15 seconds standing at a red light. Like the DU suddenly falls back on place...
I'm going with the mechanical explanation. Presumably there is no electrical activity at all in the inverter when it's in Neutral. If you creep up a hill, then put it in Neutral, the noise continues even as the car glides to a stop and starts back down the hill. In this case, the car is driving the motor, but using the same gear faces that are used when the motor drives the car forward. Do the same experiment in reverse, no noise.
So the axial load explanation works for me. It also could be the gear surfaces becoming scarred in some way. I've heard a theory from someone at the SC that an electrical current path develops from the motor shaft thru the gears to ground - that could explain damage to the gears. It could also damage bearings, but would be more difficult to explain damaging one bearing but not the other unless the damage only occurs under high load.
Sogorman
Member
Thats it, can't take it anymore, I am embarrassed to drive around in parking lots and my neighborhood after being asked, "whats that noise". I will often speed up about a 1/4 mile from my house so I can coast into the garage without fear of the neighbors hearing the $90,000 circular saw driving down the street. Here is a video i shot this morning, going to see what the SC guys think...
My Movie - YouTube
My Movie - YouTube
I've had the milling/saw noise for a few months now. I would say mine is louder than those videos. Took it in about 2 months ago they said it needs to be replaced but part is on backorder. I call every few weeks and "still on back order" no ETA. Getting very frustrated. I've been putting off the service to have them do it at the same time, since they won't pick up my car (live too far away).
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