Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Elon Musk deletes twitter posts about P85D/85D efficiency increases

wk057

Vendor & Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
5,784
12,608
Hickory, NC, USA
Figured this warranted a new thread...

As noted here by dennis in the other thread, Elon Musk tweets software upgrade will increase P85D range - Page 18 , Elon Mush has removed his tweets about P85D and 85D efficiency improvements coming via software updates.

I don't know about you, but this is leaving an even more sour taste in my mouth about this whole range issue...

Original links

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/547552536220008448

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/547559568939573248

One of the original text: "Software update to achieve max efficiency (going to full idle on 2nd motor) is not out yet. Range of P85D should then closely match P85+."
 
Last edited:

darthy001

Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!
Oct 29, 2012
726
58
Bærum, Norway
Hmm... I cannot believe that he could do this and think no one would notice!? He cant possibly be that stupid....

I would think this leaves him open for all kinds of legal issues if done to hide his actions.

Hoping this is step one in clearing up comms here, but cannot shake the feeling of something being very fishy now...
 

Bet TSLA

Active Member
Dec 8, 2014
2,940
12,297
Cupertino, CA
My guess is that he's getting reined in by the lawyers. It's clear to me from this forum that Tesla will eventually go the way of Apple: total silence on unannounced products. There's just no benefit to it. There's endless complaining by customers, potential and actual. For the same reason, the whole production and delivery process will probably become opaque as well: you'll order, they'll (maybe) give you an estimated date with no promises, and you'll be informed the day before delivery. All questions about your car will be answered by: I don't know anything beyond what's on your dashboard (which will be nothing beyond "in production"). And all questions about unreleased software updates will get the same response.

I think this will make most people happier in the end, and is just as good as other car manufacturers. People who want certainty can buy from stock.
 
Last edited:

wk057

Vendor & Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
5,784
12,608
Hickory, NC, USA
The tweets are showing up for me...

Nope, they're gone. Must be cached on your side.

- - - Updated - - -

My guess is that he's getting reined in by the lawyers. It's clear to me from this forum that Tesla will eventually go the way of Apple: total silence on unannounced products. There's just no benefit to it. There's endless complaining by customers, potential and actual. For the same reason, the whole production and delivery process will probably become opaque as well: you'll order, they'll (maybe) give you an estimated date with no promises, and you'll be informed the day before delivery. All questions about your car will be answered by: I don't know anything beyond what's on your dashboard (which will be nothing beyond "in production").

I think this will make most people happier in the end, and is just as good as other car manufacturers. People who want certainty can buy from stock.

Well, I don't see how it could be an issue to post the info if it were legitimate, accurate info... if it wasn't however........
 

Bet TSLA

Active Member
Dec 8, 2014
2,940
12,297
Cupertino, CA
Well, I don't see how it could be an issue to post the info if it were legitimate, accurate info...

Correctness isn't the issue. It's about setting expectations, reliable and consistent communications, and letting your VP of comms do his job without interference. Rogue founders tend to be a problem as companies mature. Elon will have to stop this, or at least run everything though PR first (which will involve lawyers). He will be very unhappy with this. Such is life. He'll compromise.
 

wk057

Vendor & Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
5,784
12,608
Hickory, NC, USA
Correctness isn't the issue. It's about setting expectations, reliable and consistent communications, and letting your VP of comms do his job without interference. Rogue founders tend to be a problem as companies mature. Elon will have to stop this, or at least run everything though PR first (which will involve lawyers). He will be very unhappy with this. Such is life. He'll compromise.

Seems they probably need to fire whoever is presently in charge of communication, internal and public communication, IMO...
 
My guess is that he's getting reined in by the lawyers. It's clear to me from this forum that Tesla will eventually go the way of Apple: total silence on unannounced products. There's just no benefit to it. There's endless complaining by customers, potential and actual. For the same reason, the whole production and delivery process will probably become opaque as well: you'll order, they'll (maybe) give you an estimated date with no promises, and you'll be informed the day before delivery. All questions about your car will be answered by: I don't know anything beyond what's on your dashboard (which will be nothing beyond "in production"). And all questions about unreleased software updates will get the same response.

I think this will make most people happier in the end, and is just as good as other car manufacturers. People who want certainty can buy from stock.

umm, except that apple always announces their products literally two weeks prior to availability, and when it's available, it's REALLY available. say what you will about tim cook...at least he was a logistics god who made sure the millions who ordered, got those millions of iphones (or whatever). Without a who-knows-its-gonna-work-out deposit, and a i-have-no-idea-whats-going-on-with-my-order delivery process.

(which is not to say apple doesnt have many, many flaws, but thats a separate topic)
 

Bet TSLA

Active Member
Dec 8, 2014
2,940
12,297
Cupertino, CA
Seems they probably need to fire whoever is presently in charge of communication, internal and public communication, IMO...

I don't know. Maybe they just need to let him do his job. It's not easy to tell a guy like Elon to STFU.

umm, except that apple always announces their products literally two weeks prior to availability...

No. Often Apple announces it's available TODAY! Tesla would be better off if they did the same. They'll figure it out. For instance, they wouldn't be late on the Model X if they hadn't made promises. In fact they could just ditch it and concentrate on their real goal, the Model 3. As it stands, if they mess up any further on the Model X it will become hugely expensive to them, in both time and money. This is a potential disaster entirely of their own making, through badly chosen communications.
 
Well, I don't see how it could be an issue to post the info if it were legitimate, accurate info... if it wasn't however........

What you see or don't see is irrelevant. It is what the SEC sees that is important. The SEC has strict rules about announcements and how they are released. Using twitter and facebook is OK as of April of 2013 PROVIDED investors have been alerted about which social media will be used to disseminate such information. If Tesla (the company, not Elon Musk the CEO) hasn't made an official announcement stating twitter as an official source for company info then such tweets could go against regulation FD. The SEC worries that "One set of shareholders should not be able to get a jump on other shareholders just because the company is selectively disclosing important information" where in their mind using twitter is the same as selectively disclosing important information.
 

Auzie

Tree Hugger Member
Jul 29, 2013
1,898
45
Sydney
My guess is that he's getting reined in by the lawyers. It's clear to me from this forum that Tesla will eventually go the way of Apple: total silence on unannounced products. There's just no benefit to it. There's endless complaining by customers, potential and actual. For the same reason, the whole production and delivery process will probably become opaque as well: you'll order, they'll (maybe) give you an estimated date with no promises, and you'll be informed the day before delivery. All questions about your car will be answered by: I don't know anything beyond what's on your dashboard (which will be nothing beyond "in production"). And all questions about unreleased software updates will get the same response.

I think this will make most people happier in the end, and is just as good as other car manufacturers. People who want certainty can buy from stock.

Tesla is on a learning curve regarding communications. They will get to a destination that you describe so well. Anything more granular easily turns into 'shooting oneself in the foot'.
 

dennis

Model S Plaid
Jul 26, 2012
1,964
5,007
Silicon Valley CA
Could have been the result of a stern gaze from the EPA. They really frown upon untested claims.

I doubt that. He didn't mention EPA mileage figures. Plus the P85D numbers as submitted to the EPA are already "close" to that of the P+ when outfitted with the same wheels/tires.

- - - Updated - - -

Seems they probably need to fire whoever is presently in charge of communication, internal and public communication, IMO...

I think they already did. And brought back the only guy who was able to get along with Elon when in that role.
 

3mp_kwh

Active Member
Feb 13, 2013
1,127
324
Boston
I don't think its the SEC, as much as possibly saying too much with the "idle the 2nd motor" comment. That may have let too much out. Even if we assume the second motor is the rear (w/greater front efficiency), these motors may not be "clutching out" in a way that keeps their rotating inertia from being a drag on efficiency. If one is idled, the other has to drag it around, wasting energy to change speed even subtly. And others are credibly theorizing the two motors can work against each other a bit, when both are functioning. Someone's claim the 275/285 numbers were "modeled" is starting to make more sense. In perfect conditions, a smaller motor should do what they thought, alone.

EPA could pick up on a modeled number. I thought manufacturers were supposed to be fresh off the dyno, if not real world drive cycle tests. In that case, the highway MPGe could be the liability they are focused on.

Ford sent $500 checks to owners who'll never make up the 46-38mpg $$ difference, between their EPA submitted number and fuel economy.gov's customer submissions. That gap was huge, and now they are running C-max ads saying "it's not the miles you'll get out of the C-max", before providing a total range figure. How clever. I'd questions Ford's scruples much sooner than Tesla's.
 

maoing

Active Member
Mar 16, 2014
1,268
270
San Diego
Not only those two tweets. There is another recent one about "Should mention that a battery pack upgrade is not coming soon for the Model S, but it obviously "will" happen long-term" also got removed. So I suspect it's due to some communication issue from Elon's tweets instead of specific P85D/S85D range concern.

Figured this warranted a new thread...

As noted here by dennis in the other thread, Elon Musk tweets software upgrade will increase P85D range - Page 18 , Elon Mush has removed his tweets about P85D and 85D efficiency improvements coming via software updates.

I don't know about you, but this is leaving an even more sour taste in my mouth about this whole range issue...

Original links

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/547552536220008448

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/547559568939573248

One of the original text: "Software update to achieve max efficiency (going to full idle on 2nd motor) is not out yet. Range of P85D should then closely match P85+."
 

Andyw2100

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2014
6,542
2,443
Ithaca, NY
What you see or don't see is irrelevant. It is what the SEC sees that is important. The SEC has strict rules about announcements and how they are released. Using twitter and facebook is OK as of April of 2013 PROVIDED investors have been alerted about which social media will be used to disseminate such information. If Tesla (the company, not Elon Musk the CEO) hasn't made an official announcement stating twitter as an official source for company info then such tweets could go against regulation FD. The SEC worries that "One set of shareholders should not be able to get a jump on other shareholders just because the company is selectively disclosing important information" where in their mind using twitter is the same as selectively disclosing important information.

This is interesting.

How do we find out whether or not Tesla investors have been alerted to the use of Twitter as an official source of company information or not?
 

dennis

Model S Plaid
Jul 26, 2012
1,964
5,007
Silicon Valley CA
Someone's claim the 275/285 numbers were "modeled" is starting to make more sense. In perfect conditions, a smaller motor should do what they thought, alone.

EPA could pick up on a modeled number. I thought manufacturers were supposed to be fresh off the dyno, if not real world drive cycle tests. In that case, the highway MPGe could be the liability they are focused on.

The 275/285 numbers that may or may not have been modeled were at a constant 65 mph, and clearly stated as such.

Manufacturers must follow a very strict procedure for the EPA tests, which are conducted on a dyno. That is where the 94 MPGe was achieved.
 

AWDtsla

Active Member
Mar 3, 2013
4,282
4,255
NE
I don't think its the SEC, as much as possibly saying too much with the "idle the 2nd motor" comment. That may have let too much out. Even if we assume the second motor is the rear (w/greater front efficiency), these motors may not be "clutching out" in a way that keeps their rotating inertia from being a drag on efficiency. If one is idled, the other has to drag it around, wasting energy to change speed even subtly. And others are credibly theorizing the two motors can work against each other a bit, when both are functioning. Someone's claim the 275/285 numbers were "modeled" is starting to make more sense. In perfect conditions, a smaller motor should do what they thought, alone.

No one would be stupid enough to call that a "model" of power consumption. Someone driving a dev vehicle would surely notice 30-40% more power usage than expected.

A more rational explanation is the production car does not yet have the same software as the dev car. It's probably stuck in QA.
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top