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Elon Musk deletes twitter posts about P85D/85D efficiency increases

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by wk057, Dec 27, 2014.

  1. Johan

    Johan Funds for M3 secured. Contingent on wife aproval.

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    They must know that tweets by the CEO counts as official information. Reyes has a difficult job I'd imagine...
     
  2. Auzie

    Auzie Tree Hugger Member

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    The use of social media including Twitter for company announcements has been cleared in the past by SEC.

    There were many other tweets by Elon in the past that related to Tesla announcements.

    Perhaps Elon is always keen to share good news, but sharing too much can backfire. People can be merciless with the demands.
     
  3. schonelucht

    schonelucht Well-Known Member

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    Why are we so sure it is the lawyers who called him back on the tweet (be it because of SEC, EPA doesn't really matter)? There is also the distinct possibility his engineers called him back because they won't be able to deliver the promise in his tweet (soon)...
     
  4. Bet TSLA

    Bet TSLA Active Member

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    Nobody is pretending to be sure of anything. We're speculating. In this we will never be sure. But I'm betting that some time soon Tesla gets much less fast and loose about its claims and predictions.
     
  5. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

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    This is the only "positive" news here. Might just be a more general clean up since all thats left are more or less covered in official blogs etc.
     
  6. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    #26 sandpiper, Dec 28, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
    Maybe. But the most obvious scenario is their realization, in the last few days, that they can't get the P85d to come up to the range of the p85, that they have a big problem and that they're trying to limit the damage. Although this horse is out of the barn already.

    So, what to do? I take delivery in a few days and I didn't sign up for a car with 15% less range than the p85.
     
  7. Johan

    Johan Funds for M3 secured. Contingent on wife aproval.

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    If this is what it ends up coming down to it will be a really big issue for Tesla. They will publicly have to eat their words and apologize and/or offer free returns and money back for all P85D buyers.

    It will be an issue much worse than for example the "lease cost calculator" nonsense, the "300 mile range Model S", all the delays since with those things at least there was a way to interpret their statements so that they were still true(ish) but if the P85D never achieves the same(ish) range as a P85+ then the fact is that Elon and Tesla have lied. I so hope they fix this through software, and that it's fixed soon!
     
  8. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

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    #28 darthy001, Dec 28, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
    Agree 100% this will be a PR-nightmare if they cant fix it soon. The press will jump all over this in full force.

    BUT what I just realised is that this could easily mean even more Model X delays which would be even worse for them. If they cant manage the efficiency of the dual motors on the S the penalty will be even greater on the X...

    Now I am really glad the currency rates USD/NOK went bananas a few weeks ago and stopped me from buying into TSLA...

    At the same time I keep thinking that idling the rear motor cant be that difficult can it!?

    edit: curiously Norwegian design studio is still showing the equivalent of [email protected] range numbers and 155mph top speed with no disclaimers about limited top speed like the US design studio is showing now... Communication clearly is not Teslas strong suit;)
     
  9. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    Yes, it can be MUCH more complex than that. The when and how to cut two motors with different power curves, in and out while retaining awd traction control, regen and reasonable performance, at a wide range of speeds and commanded accelerations and decelerations is potentially quite difficult. It's not just a matter of cutting out one motor. Screw this up and you'll make the problem worse.
     
  10. Muskol

    Muskol Member

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    #30 Muskol, Dec 28, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
    FWIW, I had screenshots saved of the deleted tweets (2/3) b40a936b6b69682115742ffc4353d3b2.jpg 02453b4614f51b1fdde479e23f660859.jpg

    Missing "85D has higher range than 85 when using the same tires. Sport tires have better handling, but 3% to 5% range impact. Tradeoff is worth it"
     
  11. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Well-Known Member

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    It seems very odd that it is possible to achieve EPA numbers then not ship the car with the same firmware that allowed those EPA numbers in the first place. It would be like pulling a couple of pistons to eliminate pumping losses doing EPA testing then putting them back in for production...... (of course, you can not remove the pistons via an over the air update).
     
  12. bonaire

    bonaire Active Member

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    Elon did not found Tesla. Just for the record...
     
  13. Zythryn

    Zythryn M3 Silver, M3 Midnight Silver

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    Because it obviously had to be malicious, or underhanded, right?

    If you are at a street corner yelling to announce a sale at a store, then you are notified their is no sale, you stop yelling.

    No "hiding" is involved, you simply decide to stop putting out bad information.

    The range thing is rather involved and there are still lots of questions.
    I'll wait till I hear from one of the local owners that has gone one a trip long enough to test the full range.
     
  14. randompersonx

    randompersonx Member

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    Honestly, I put this into the category of "yet more bad communications from Tesla".

    The announcement was already made. If there is a reason to remove the tweet, it needs to be disclosed in whatever form they deem appropriate (Honestly: their blog posts seem like the best place).

    It will only be a matter of hours before this forum blows up with everyone convinced that the software update will not be possible (or at least, not any time soon), and will lead to only more cancellations. Like others here have suggested, it also points to more delays with the X if these software updates can't be pushed out soon.

    I am stunned at how badly the rollout of the P85D was. This was Tesla's Halo Car. If the announcement was just made initially with lower range expectations and a promise that they would be developing improved software for improved efficiency that may take months, it still would have been a halo car.

    The problem isn't too much information, the problem is haphazard incorrect information.
     
  15. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

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    Are you seriously trying to put a positive spin on _deleting_ tweets like this?

    This isnt even close to being similar to announcing a sale that is cancelled at a later stage. They have already had the sale and sold a product not meeting the promised spec. Both range and top speed in delivered cars is _not_ according to what they sold originally, and they are in fact are still selling those "false" specs outside the US with no warnings on limited top speeds or impending range improving firmware.

    There is absolutely no doubt the range is worse. Elon would have never made that tweet unless it was true. Evidence from previous P85-owners here backs this up 100% as well. So far there isnt one single datapoint showing similar or improved range. If you still believe there is a glimmer of hope before a firmware-upgrade you havent read the threads posts from the first P85D-owners here.

    randomrpersonx sums it up almost perfectly. Tesla has such a big communication issue that it is actually hard to believe they just never learn.
     
  16. bollar

    bollar Disgruntled Member

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  17. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

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    Just proves they have no control over comms. They/Elon have done it before and keeps on doing it. They cant continue this way if they want to be taken seriously in the long run.

    Luckily for Tesla they are still in a position where customers accept such nonsense, most likely including myself. But that wont continue forever. I know the automotive-press in Norway will be all over this if the firmware isnt updated soon. Can also hear the Jalopniks, seekingalphas, Fox News etc really putting a "nice" spin on the regression of range from Teslas halo car.
     
  18. bonaire

    bonaire Active Member

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    Software could be a part of the problem and as such, let's see what comes of firmware upgrades. Balancing acceleration and regen in two disconnected drivetrains at-once needs to be done very well. My only question is "wouldn't this have been on the engineer's minds during design?" Perhaps the issue was there during design, causing Model X delays and then when the D was pushed out in October, they still were working on the power-balance.
     
  19. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Is Cat

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    I didn't see any 'positive spin' being put on it. Rather 'Z' was pointing out that automatically jumping to the worst possible conclusion (and thinking the worst of people and their intentions) right off the bat isn't perhaps the best way to go, nor the most accurate of the situation (or person/people). It's akin to the relationship cheater always looking for and assuming that the partner must also be cheating, when all the partner is doing is trying to organize a surprise birthday party.

    Why not just simply wait and see what happens before making claims and getting all worked up? Is that so hard? So he deleted some tweets. Not a big deal. I can think of lots of non-nefarious reasons for doing it. As an example: Elon has said before that it can be difficult to get exacting information across with the character limitation of Twitter. He might have felt that his tweets opened the door for more questions than answers and has decided to tackle the whole thing via another blog.
     
  20. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

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    Please reread the quote from me that Zythryn quoted. I actually gave Elon the benefit of the doubt and was hoping this was a part of a clean up of communications. But that I have a bad feeling is of course obvious in that quote and later posts.

    Had Tesla actually informed the initial owners here that they had limited range and speed _before_ delivery we would have been in a completely different situation. Now all things points to playing catch up and still not being complete honest about what owners can really expect. All info from atesla here has come after they have been caught underdelivering.
     

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