Elon Musk

[anticitizen13.7]

Low EQ people don't tend to behave well under stress, and Elon seems to be capable of dealing with some pretty intense stress.

Elon is all head and little heart. He approaches everything as a Physics problem, which is fantastic for his work life, but it doesn't work for his personal life. In Ashley Vance's biography there was something in there that Elon set about learning how to relate to people because he realized that to see his vision in the real world, he was going to have to manage people to work for him. But he just barely met minimum spec there.

From what I can remember of the Vance biography on Musk, Elon had significantly more trouble relating to people as a child/young adult than Kimbal, his easygoing and charming brother.

I don't know that Elon doesn't have much heart though. There was a 60 Minutes interview a few years ago, and Elon became very emotional when the subject of former Astronauts criticizing private space ventures was brought up. He really looked up to those guys and they were saying some really awful stuff to Congress about SpaceX and others compromising safety.

A psycho like me would have brushed it off.

Tesla and SpaceX are both very tough places to work and Elon is famous for being unsympathetic, though he's also famous for removing obstacles from people's way too

If what the Vance bio conveyed was accurate, saying to Elon "We can't do X" could get one fired. "We can't do X under present conditions, but if we have A, B, and C, we can get it done" on the other hand would likely get Elon to put A, B, and C into place. I think this is probably the most important thing for any new Tesla or SpaceX employee to know before working at either company. Limited thinking isn't tolerated, but independent problem solving is rewarded.

As a mate Elon is absent most of the time and when he is around, he's likely quite the hard task master (it's unlikely he shuts that part of himself off when he leaves the office). He also has some semi-eugenics ideas that smart people should have as many children as possible and any mate is seen as a potential brood mare for more children. That may have been one of the tensions between him and Telulah, she probably didn't want children any time soon because of her career and he may have been pressuring for more children. We'll probably never know for sure though, both are fairly quiet about the details of why they split, though I believe she has said she had problems with the loneliness.

Weird. I didn't know this. That actually creeps me out slightly, like the Zerg aliens from StarCraft, which replicate and evolve rapidly. "Spawn more Overlords".

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Weird. I didn't know this. That actually creeps me out slightly, like the Zerg aliens from StarCraft, which replicate and evolve rapidly. "Spawn more Overlords".

I don't know, doesn't seem any creepier than the common slight of saying "I hope you never breed" when talking to someone you feel has an inferior intellect.

Hell, the entire plot of "Idiocracy" revolves around it.

 

[wdolson]

From what I can remember of the Vance biography on Musk, Elon had significantly more trouble relating to people as a child/young adult than Kimbal, his easygoing and charming brother.

I don't know that Elon doesn't have much heart though. There was a 60 Minutes interview a few years ago, and Elon became very emotional when the subject of former Astronauts criticizing private space ventures was brought up. He really looked up to those guys and they were saying some really awful stuff to Congress about SpaceX and others compromising safety.

A psycho like me would have brushed it off.

I can see someone who isn't a good people person getting upset when somebody is threatening their life's mission. Other people might be less emotional about it.

If what the Vance bio conveyed was accurate, saying to Elon "We can't do X" could get one fired. "We can't do X under present conditions, but if we have A, B, and C, we can get it done" on the other hand would likely get Elon to put A, B, and C into place. I think this is probably the most important thing for any new Tesla or SpaceX employee to know before working at either company. Limited thinking isn't tolerated, but independent problem solving is rewarded.

He does insist that if you claim something can't be done, you better be prepared to back it up with how it's physically impossible.

Weird. I didn't know this. That actually creeps me out slightly, like the Zerg aliens from StarCraft, which replicate and evolve rapidly. "Spawn more Overlords".

I've known other people with the same attitude. Most of the ones I've known are the sort of people who are essentially using it as an excuse to sleep with as many women as possible (all the ones I've known are male). None of them have had much success. Elon's in a different league from those people though, he has an actual track record of success beyond doing well on some test. Still kind of creepy.

 

[Yuri_G]

Low EQ people don't tend to behave well under stress, and Elon seems to be capable of dealing with some pretty intense stress.

Elon is all head and little heart. He approaches everything as a Physics problem, which is fantastic for his work life, but it doesn't work for his personal life. In Ashley Vance's biography there was something in there that Elon set about learning how to relate to people because he realized that to see his vision in the real world, he was going to have to manage people to work for him. But he just barely met minimum spec there.

This is just wrong. I've seen him tear up in multiple videos, not just on 60 minutes. They weren't threatening his life's mission either, they were dismissing SpaceX as not a worthy successor. He is calculating, but he fully invests his mind and emotion into his projects because he believes in them 100%.

 

[wdolson]

This is just wrong. I've seen him tear up in multiple videos, not just on 60 minutes. They weren't threatening his life's mission either, they were dismissing SpaceX as not a worthy successor. He is calculating, but he fully invests his mind and emotion into his projects because he believes in them 100%.

I'm doing a poor job of explaining it. There is a difference between being emotional about something and being able to lead others. Someone who is autistic can sit there and throw a violent fit, but they struggle to articulate their basic wants.

Being a leader is a completely different axis from emotions. Emotions can play into it, an inspiring leader can stir the emotions of their audience and get them exited about following.

Good leadership is difficult to learn and takes a strong ability to read others. It takes gauging those your leading and doing what it takes to get them marching in the direction you want them. In some cases that might be a pep talk, it might be removing barriers in some other case, or it might be something else for a different person. Usually the people who are stuck don't know why themselves, so just asking isn't going to help.

Elon has learned the basics of leadership well enough to keep SpaceX and Tesla marching in the right direction and he can be an inspiration with his willingness to get down in the trenches and do any job. He also isn't into petty politics or game playing. When there is a problem, all he wants to know is a) have we hit a problem where we are trying to violate the laws of Physics? and if not b) what is the nature of the problem and how to we fix it. It's all about solutions, and I can respect that, but people who are thin skinned or a bit more politically wired are going to have a lot of problem with that approach.

Elon's approach that works OK in engineering companies with a lot of people also focused on achieving the same goals doesn't work in a relationship where the lines are, by nature, fuzzier. He isn't really wired to even think about those things much. They take too much energy away from his passions.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

I'm learning more about management from car guys than I did managing engineering projects and very bright engineers.

 

[Johan]

@wdolson: How long have you and Elon been friends? Or if you're not friends how long did you work closely with him? You sure seem to know an awful lot about what kind of person he is.

Thank you kindly.

 

[wdolson]

I'm learning more about management from car guys than I did managing engineering projects and very bright engineers.

For what it's worth I'm not a car guy. 18 months ago I wouldn't be caught dead on a car forum. But I am an engineer.

@wdolson: How long have you and Elon been friends? Or if you're not friends how long did you work closely with him? You sure seem to know an awful lot about what kind of person he is.

Thank you kindly.

Obviously I don't know him nor have I ever met him. Everything I said was speculation from afar, but I thought that was obvious.

I thought Ashley Vance's biography did a pretty good job of painting a picture of who Elon Musk was and it squares with what I've seen everywhere else. Intellectually he is probably one of the greatest geniuses alive today and he is one of the most driven people on Earth.

That doesn't make him any better than anyone else in any other area and in fact may make him worse in some areas.

 

[Jevi_S85D]

Genius for sure - I didn't always recognize this.

 

[ohmman]

Elon is all head and little heart.

"Heart" is a way of saying he should abandon logic in favor of irrational emotions. We're wired to avoid logic in favor of our own feelings, and I personally think it's a great thing that he's able to look past those emotions in his decision process. I also don't think that precludes him from finding an excellent, rational mate. But he might be looking in the wrong places.

 

[wdolson]

I don't define "heart" that way.

 

[ecarfan]

Elon is all head and little heart. He approaches everything as a Physics problem, which is fantastic for his work life, but it doesn't work for his personal life

While I agree with much of what you say about Musk (and I have read the Vance biography) I would advise against making sweeping generalizations about the interior emotional life of someone you do not know personally and have never met. It's hard enough to understand another human being that you believe you know intimately based on long personal contact. You are unlikely to have a deeper understanding of Elon's personal life than the thousands (more likely millions) of other people who have read extensively about him and listened to him speak on numerous occasions. I have no idea what "works" for Elon in his personal life despite having read everything I can find about him in print and watched countless videos of him speaking or being interviewed, as well as attending Tesla shareholder meetings and asking him a grand total of two questions.

 

[wdolson]

While I agree with much of what you say about Musk (and I have read the Vance biography) I would advise against making sweeping generalizations about the interior emotional life of someone you do not know personally and have never met. It's hard enough to understand another human being that you believe you know intimately based on long personal contact. You are unlikely to have a deeper understanding of Elon's personal life than the thousands (more likely millions) of other people who have read extensively about him and listened to him speak on numerous occasions. I have no idea what "works" for Elon in his personal life despite having read everything I can find about him in print and watched countless videos of him speaking or being interviewed, as well as attending Tesla shareholder meetings and asking him a grand total of two questions.

I usually hedge my speculations about people with more words like "possibly" or "probably" rather than make statements like I know for sure. Anything I said was just speculation and can quite possible be wrong.

 

[Johan]

I usually hedge my speculations about people with more words like "possibly" or "probably" rather than make statements like I know for sure. Anything I said was just speculation and can quite possible be wrong.

How much probability would you assign then to your estimation the he is, all in all, quite a heartless man? 10% 50% 98%. Because that is basically what you are saying about him.

 

[Krugerrand]

I have no idea what "works" for Elon in his personal life...

Anything I've read on this front points to him being rather old fashion.

 

[PaulusdB]

The Amber thing puts some of Elon's recent tweets in a new perspective (to me).
18-07-2016 11:18 "Bit of a distraction yesterday. Working on plan today."

(Amber and her sister stopped by the day before.)​

20-07-2016 16:37 "Finishing off the plan while listening to the soundtrack from Gatsby. Seems appropriate..."

(Mr. DiCaprio stars in that movie)​

20-07-2016 17:21 "Not easy to convey irony in a tweet"

(Gatsby comment actually not being very appropriate.)​

 

[wdolson]

How much probability would you assign then to your estimation the he is, all in all, quite a heartless man? 10% 50% 98%. Because that is basically what you are saying about him.

I never said he was heartless, so I would say 0%..

From everything I've seen Elon likes to quantify and objectify everything. Earlier in this thread someone posted a quote from Elon where he was wondering how many hours a week a woman would want for attention. He lives very much in his head.

Someone who is metaphorically "heart centered" lives for others much more and doesn't intellectualize everything. It's a fuzzier thing that is harder to nail down than someone who lives in their head. Science shows us all of us live in our heads and the terminology used for those who live in their heads is left brain, while those who are more "heart" centered are called right brain.

More recent brain science shows everyone (barring brain injury) uses both sides of their brain. Studies on those who have had brain injuries as well as recent studies with modern anesthetics that allow one side of the brain to be put to sleep shows if someone is operating exclusively from one side of their brain, some pretty weird behavior crops up.

But we still have behavior patterns that are called left or right brained or head and heart people.

Most healthy romantic relationships aren't going to do very well with a lot of over intellectualizing. I have seen relationships between two people who are heavy intellectualizers, but they seem more like a friends with benefits kind of thing than what most people would consider a romantic relationship. Some intellectualizing can help a couple to identify issues and possibly come up with some ideas to work through them, but most relationships suffer with too much head and too little heart.

Elon shows a lot of signs of being very left brained or he lives in his head. He wants a formula for a relationship he can follow, but they don't usually work that way.

That is completely different from someone having passion or even caring about humanity. I have known some people (all of whom were very left brained) who were very passionate about what could be called liberal causes. They believed in things like saving the environment, helping the poor, the sick, etc. But when it came to dealing with people one on one, they were not all that good and in some cases, they would have preferred to not really have to deal with people at all.

Another analogy was they were passionate about the forest, but didn't really care one way or the other about individual trees.

 

[Nevek]

Another analogy was they were passionate about the forest, but didn't really care one way or the other about individual trees.

And we need both, big picture and individual compassion.

I have no insight into Mr Musk and his psyche by buying his cars and admiring his work. I also think his private life is his own affair, to the extent the media and the rest of us will allow it as a public figure. I do wish him well.

 

[ecarfan]

the terminology used for those who live in their heads is left brain, while those who are more "heart" centered are called right brain.

That is just simplistic pseudoscience, and means nothing. Unless you are a qualified neuroscientist, please do not propagate such nonsense.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Personally, I think Elon's next girlfriend should be a professional StarCraft II player who spends an obsessive amount of time playing multiplayer video games. That somewhat takes care of the time problem. A StarCraft II player might also be more amenable to getting in a space ship and living in a Terran Command Center on Mars. En Taro Adun! We require more minerals...

Yeah, but that kind of girl isn't going to look like a supermodel.

I fear that Elon still hasn't learned that you can't, in fact, have it all. Or maybe he's just fine living the life of a super rich bachelor and letting his ex wife look after the kids. There are worse fates.