Personally, the major reason I bought the model S85D was its energy efficiency. I'm not claiming that I don't enjoy its power, but I could have bought something else for power with far, far less efficiency. Tesla rightfully markets its cars touting their environmental advantages and promoting the concept of an EV future. It is really disappointing to have him tweeting support for Tillerson, CEO of a mega-oil company whose profits depend on fossil fuel CO2 emissions. He may be a good businessman, based on success at Exxon, but how can we believe his motives on climate change are in our favor?? Elon tweets that he'll be on America's side - how does that fit with the Tesla world view?
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Elon Musk
- Thread starter graham
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Personally, the major reason I bought the model S85D was its energy efficiency. I'm not claiming that I don't enjoy its power, but I could have bought something else for power with far, far less efficiency. Tesla rightfully markets its cars touting their environmental advantages and promoting the concept of an EV future. It is really disappointing to have him tweeting support for Tillerson, CEO of a mega-oil company whose profits depend on fossil fuel CO2 emissions. He may be a good businessman, based on success at Exxon, but how can we believe his motives on climate change are in our favor?? Elon tweets that he'll be on America's side - how does that fit with the Tesla world view?
Personally, the major reason I bought the model S85D was its energy efficiency. I'm not claiming that I don't enjoy its power, but I could have bought something else for power with far, far less efficiency. Tesla rightfully markets its cars touting their environmental advantages and promoting the concept of an EV future. It is really disappointing to have him tweeting support for Tillerson, CEO of a mega-oil company whose profits depend on fossil fuel CO2 emissions. He may be a good businessman, based on success at Exxon, but how can we believe his motives on climate change are in our favor?? Elon tweets that he'll be on America's side - how does that fit with the Tesla world view?
T34ME
Active Member
Exactly! Musk could have just kept his mouth shut about Tillerson for Sec of State, but he decided to interject himself into the controversy.
Now in the interests of being "fair and balanced" apparently Musk is hoping that Tillerson will keep the US in the Paris Climate Agreement and strengthen it with a carbon tax. I think Musk is dreaming, what with the Grabber in Chief in charge. Musk is really rolling the dice, but I find this is typical of his business model.
Ah, yes, so Trump is like a $0.40/min idle charge for some of you guys. Got it.
In all seriousness though, the haste to jump to conclusions is probably the worst IMO with the whole reaction to the Trump saga. By all means discuss or speculate on specific grievances and fears, but it seems to me a lot of people have made up their mind prematurely.
It would seem useful to at least on some level that those most panicking about him might remind themselves, hey, I could be wrong about this guy. Maybe it works. It seems unlikely to me, but at least it is possible. Or something like that.
It would seem to me Elon was capable of this. Though we can't be sure about his reasons. Maybe he is just opportunistic or pragmatic. It is also possible his personal politics are not quite as left as some people's are, making it easier.
In some cases, it's a good idea to collaborate with leaders you don't like if it helps to advance your own cause. But there's a limit somewhere. Just as an extreme example (and I'm NOT comparing Trump to Hitler here!), collaborating with Hitler to help / start your auto business is a very, very bad idea. (Volkswagen, Renault, etc.)
In Trumps case, I think that working with him to potentially help Tesla is still okay-ish. It's a close call though. Especially since Trump is in favour of torture, which is totally unacceptable for me. The way he's handling foreign affairs right now (Mexico, China, Merkel, Putin) is also quite shocking and might lead to extremely bad results for any country involved. Not to mention what's going on with the war between the media and Trump, that is just idiotic.
If he keeps on doing the same bad stuff and bad news come out every day I don't think that Elon should work with him for much longer. It will hurt Tesla, and if all we get out of this is a slight chance for a small carbon tax, then it's not worth the trouble. It doesn't seem like Elons voice of reason has a noticeable influence on Trump. (Some guys in the administration might listen, but ultimately if Trump doesn't like it, then Elon is out of luck.)
In Trumps case, I think that working with him to potentially help Tesla is still okay-ish. It's a close call though. Especially since Trump is in favour of torture, which is totally unacceptable for me. The way he's handling foreign affairs right now (Mexico, China, Merkel, Putin) is also quite shocking and might lead to extremely bad results for any country involved. Not to mention what's going on with the war between the media and Trump, that is just idiotic.
If he keeps on doing the same bad stuff and bad news come out every day I don't think that Elon should work with him for much longer. It will hurt Tesla, and if all we get out of this is a slight chance for a small carbon tax, then it's not worth the trouble. It doesn't seem like Elons voice of reason has a noticeable influence on Trump. (Some guys in the administration might listen, but ultimately if Trump doesn't like it, then Elon is out of luck.)
I don't think that's exactly it either. Their terms don't "expire" and they are not "required to resign." Rather, in the case of political appointments, a president can fire and hire. To be polite and civil, they may offer letters of resignation, but I doubt they are required to, and if they don't and if a new president takes no action they'll remain in their posts.
T34ME
Active Member
Jumping to conclusions? The nutso has been a narcissistic megalomaniac his whole life! He now has US domestic and foreign policy in a complete and dangerous mess. No one in his administration knows what they are doing, contradicting each other several times a day. It's nice for you to pontificate from the EU, but we have to put up with this idiot on a daily basis. RESIST!
To get back on topic, Musk just continues to sully his brand and image the longer he aligns himself with Tillerson and the Grabber in Chief.
Elon made it pretty clear who he supports, Lyndon Rive even held a fund raising dinner for Clinton in his house
The situation is what it is and Elon tries to make the best of it
btw. I don't see how any good will came out of it when electic cars became more and more a Liberal vs Conservativ kind of thing, it's bad enough how it is today
The situation is what it is and Elon tries to make the best of it
btw. I don't see how any good will came out of it when electic cars became more and more a Liberal vs Conservativ kind of thing, it's bad enough how it is today
I respect your opinion, of course. But I stand by mine: judging prematurely is potentially quite inaccurate, especially when that judgement is partially based on the perception passed through a clearly panicking establishment and media that is also prone to exaggerations in this shared panic mode. Nobody seems to be acting quite themselves or normally at the moment.
The old proverb about letting the dust settle would seem to fit IMO. We shall see what Trump does or doesn't soon enough.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
I'm just a federal employee in IT who spent last Friday collecting and issuing IT equipment, what do I know, right?
I agree with you about Trump. I disagree about Musk. The electoral college installed the most unqualified person to ever hold the office, and who actually lost the popular vote. (Democracy? Not here in America!) But it is what it is. We now need to resist the disastrous policies of the administration, but Musk is in an unusual position to do more good by engaging than by stonewalling.
T34ME
Active Member
I am keeping up. You said you're having second thoughts due to Elon's endorsement. Then, you went on relentlessly ranting about how Elon has sullied the brand. I assume your second thoughts have concreted into an actual cancellation - or are you sullying your own principles by associating yourself with the brand?
Elon on Twitter just basically confirmed our suspicions. He's trying to nudge the bar in the right direction.
Skotty
2014 S P85 | 2023 F-150L
There are ways to address inconvenient problems from a conservative approach, and not just dismiss or try to discredit the problems. A revenue neutral carbon tax is a good example of a conservative approach to address climate change. This is what the Citizens Climate Lobby has been advocating for, and it gets far more support than many other efforts to address climate change concerns. Elon wants the same thing. Rex has indicated support for this type of approach. Can we take Rex at his word on this? We don't yet know. Elon seems to be taking an innocent until proven guilty approach on this (same reason I don't hold Clinton as a criminal for her emails or other issues), and I can't fault this approach. I say, ok, lets give Rex a chance to either demonstrate his innocence or prove his own guilt.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Totally agree.
I wish Elon could just denounce him, but that would be a very foolish action (especially for someone with the goals he has). He needs a seat at the table, he has a seat at the table. I'm in his corner on this one. And very very grateful it's not me having to interact.
Elon is being a grownup and keeping his eye on his goals. I'm with him. Barry Brisco on Twitter
The argument that Trump lost the Popular vote... so he should not have been elected, is pointless.
Campaigns are designed and built around the rules of the system that gets them elected. Trump was very aware of how the electoral collage works and steered his campaign to win the most electoral votes..... had the rules been set that popular vote is what wins, his strategy would have been much different. He may not be a lot peoples favorite choice, but he was obviously the favored candidate by many.
I did a motorcycle tour of upstate NY, Vermont, NH, Maine, Mass, RI, and Conn in October. I was surprised at how many Trump signs I saw throughout the trip... I did not see a single Hillary sign. Now I'm not saying there were none, I could have missed some... but It was clear to me that there was much more support in the small towns for Trump.... Not scientific by any means, but definitely a good trip on the Harley!!!
Trump may not be very Politically correct and may make some bad decisions, but don't they all???
Its kind of nice to watch someone say what they feel and want to put our country first... I just hope it doesn't blow up in his face.
Gonna be a wild ride...
Campaigns are designed and built around the rules of the system that gets them elected. Trump was very aware of how the electoral collage works and steered his campaign to win the most electoral votes..... had the rules been set that popular vote is what wins, his strategy would have been much different. He may not be a lot peoples favorite choice, but he was obviously the favored candidate by many.
I did a motorcycle tour of upstate NY, Vermont, NH, Maine, Mass, RI, and Conn in October. I was surprised at how many Trump signs I saw throughout the trip... I did not see a single Hillary sign. Now I'm not saying there were none, I could have missed some... but It was clear to me that there was much more support in the small towns for Trump.... Not scientific by any means, but definitely a good trip on the Harley!!!
Trump may not be very Politically correct and may make some bad decisions, but don't they all???
Its kind of nice to watch someone say what they feel and want to put our country first... I just hope it doesn't blow up in his face.
Gonna be a wild ride...
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I much preferred watching Obama's thoughtful consideration before he spoke.
And to suggest that Obama or Hillary did not put want to put country first is nonsense. Plus, the only thing Trump wants to put first is Trump.
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