No. SC will look at you like you're a moron if you ask for HW2.5. According to @verygreen the wiring is different and some modification will be required to do the retrofit (and the MCU might need to be changed). That's if HW2.5 also includes this stupid rearview camera which, per the Electrek article, isn't part of HW2.5. Its just the ECU having an "extra node" for added processing power (sounds like another Tegra).
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No. SC will look at you like you're a moron if you ask for HW2.5. According to @verygreen the wiring is different and some modification will be required to do the retrofit (and the MCU might need to be changed). That's if HW2.5 also includes this stupid rearview camera which, per the Electrek article, isn't part of HW2.5. Its just the ECU having an "extra node" for added processing power (sounds like another Tegra).
For kicks, I emailed service help to ask if a better computer would help EAP. 
Ultimately, this shows that they had no ****ing clue when they made the HW2/EAP/FSD announcement last October.
Ultimately, this shows that they had no ****ing clue when they made the HW2/EAP/FSD announcement last October.
No, I think they can retrofit but its not as easy as swapping out a board (if the camera is involved). Elon certainly think its just a hot swap so maybe they've thought this through better than it seems.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Did you read the quote? They aren't going to do any retrofits at all unless it is determined that HW 2.0 can't achieve FSD.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Maybe, but for your purposes, this means going to an SC to ask is worthless because they don't have anything set up to do retrofits. They will only do so after they make the determination FSD can't be done on HW 2.0.
This means that Model 3 will have better AP2 than the Model S/X cars that have been sold in the last 10 months - at 1/2 the price.
For those who took a chance with Tesla and paid for FSD activation, they should provide the upgrade for free. And increase the upgrade price for anyone activating in the future that also wants the faster processor.
For those who took a chance with Tesla and paid for FSD activation, they should provide the upgrade for free. And increase the upgrade price for anyone activating in the future that also wants the faster processor.
We don't know what is means.
I'm confident that Tesla will take care of all AP2 customers. They are plenty smart enough to know that they have to tread carefully here.
Tesla only needs to act when AP2.5 cars functionally diverge from AP2 cars.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
I'm afraid that I can already see HW 3.0 coming next year ... FSD soon to follow
We already knew that Tesla updated its Autopilot hardware suite for the Model 3 when we realized that the vehicle is equipped with a driver-facing camera – something not currently available in Model S or X. But now several sources told Electrek that it is not the only change that coincided with the start of Model 3 production. We are told that a new onboard computer updated to include a secondary GPU for more computing power was also added. The new Autopilot hardware suite is internally called “HW 2.5”.
In a statement to Electrek, a spokesperson confirmed the existence of the new hardware suite, but they downplayed its importance:
“The internal name HW 2.5 is an overstatement, and instead it should be called something more like HW 2.1. This hardware set has some added computing and wiring redundancy, which very slightly improves reliability, but it does not have an additional Pascal GPU.”
The spokesperson also said that all Model S, Model X, and Model 3 vehicles being ordered today come with the new hardware.
After announcing Autopilot 2.0, Musk said that he believes Tesla could achieve self-driving capability on the computer, but he left the door open for an upgrade and highlighted that they build the mount under the glove box to be easily accessible if they need to swap the system for a more powerful computer. Tesla still believes that it can achieve the promised full autonomy on the 2.0 suite, but they now say that they could upgrade HW 2.0 cars with the new 2.5 hardware at no cost in the “highly unlikely” possibility that it is actually needed:
“However, we still expect to achieve full self-driving capability with safety more than twice as good as the average human driver without making any hardware changes to HW 2.0. If this does not turn out to be the case, which we think is highly unlikely, we will upgrade customers to the 2.5 computer at no cost.” Furthermore, the company also reiterated their goal of “driving from a parking lot in downtown LA to a parking lot in downtown NY without touching the controls by the end of the year.”
We already knew that Tesla updated its Autopilot hardware suite for the Model 3 when we realized that the vehicle is equipped with a driver-facing camera – something not currently available in Model S or X. But now several sources told Electrek that it is not the only change that coincided with the start of Model 3 production. We are told that a new onboard computer updated to include a secondary GPU for more computing power was also added. The new Autopilot hardware suite is internally called “HW 2.5”.
In a statement to Electrek, a spokesperson confirmed the existence of the new hardware suite, but they downplayed its importance:
“The internal name HW 2.5 is an overstatement, and instead it should be called something more like HW 2.1. This hardware set has some added computing and wiring redundancy, which very slightly improves reliability, but it does not have an additional Pascal GPU.”
The spokesperson also said that all Model S, Model X, and Model 3 vehicles being ordered today come with the new hardware.
After announcing Autopilot 2.0, Musk said that he believes Tesla could achieve self-driving capability on the computer, but he left the door open for an upgrade and highlighted that they build the mount under the glove box to be easily accessible if they need to swap the system for a more powerful computer. Tesla still believes that it can achieve the promised full autonomy on the 2.0 suite, but they now say that they could upgrade HW 2.0 cars with the new 2.5 hardware at no cost in the “highly unlikely” possibility that it is actually needed:
“However, we still expect to achieve full self-driving capability with safety more than twice as good as the average human driver without making any hardware changes to HW 2.0. If this does not turn out to be the case, which we think is highly unlikely, we will upgrade customers to the 2.5 computer at no cost.” Furthermore, the company also reiterated their goal of “driving from a parking lot in downtown LA to a parking lot in downtown NY without touching the controls by the end of the year.”
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Scannerman
Member
I would be willing to bet, that Elon has paid staff combing thru every worthwhile post, searching for nuggets, which are then tabulated and forwarded to him, as appropriate. It appears to me that what you call whining, may have had something to do with the appearance of cup holders, et al.
Scannerman
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I read that comment more like retrofits being an unwanted emergency backdoor they will try their best to avoid. It does not mean FSD on AP2 will have to be as good as on AP2.5 for Tesla to still consider it good enough...
That said, if they do resort to retrofits, I don't see that happening until year(s) later when FSD actually can use it. Who knows what HW version (own silicon?) they might be fitting into cars by then.
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Interesting to see if the goalpost already moved and the promised coast to coast will actually happen in HW 2.5 instead of HW 2.0?
Also we know the cameras - at least side marker cameras - have already gone through several revisions since last year.
Also we know the cameras - at least side marker cameras - have already gone through several revisions since last year.
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
Wouldn't it be ironic if I were in fact EM? Of course, I'm not, but that would be a funny twist.
In this case they might do.
It's a matter of cost/risk. Tesla doesn't use all processing power now for EAP. Actually they probably don't know how much processing power they will need in the end for 100% FSD.
If they think AP2.0 hardware might be enough, but they know AP2.5 is much more likely to be enough. And AP2.5 is a few hundred $ more expensive. Then it's an easy question and cheap insurance.
It's cheaper to replace maybe 20k cars later, than eventually having to replace all 500k cars (with M3 ramp-up numbers and all).
This is possible.
There is also the scenario that they do already suspect AP2 won't be enough but worded their statement to appease the market at this stage about a costly retrofit, while reassuring AP2 owners at the same time...
Returning to an AP2 retrofit once even cheaper HW is available and the Model 3 train is running smoothly is less risky for Tesla than talking positively about such a thing today.
Just speculation, of course.
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
Please provide source.
Anyway it's worth pointing out that there is no "EAP" - as in Enhanced autopilot - at this point. It has no new features and does no better than my AP1 mobileye system.
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