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Fear of the 100,000 miles milestone...in a Tesla
- Thread starter Atlantan
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Brando
Active Member
1976 2-speed auto Saab 900 -240,000 miles burn down 1 qt of oil add burn down 2nd quart of oil, change = ~12,000 miles
I gave car to my friend so his son could drive to college. Was running fine 1990. parts replacement - coil, fuel pump (I never replaced fuel filter which was "hidden" under the car near fuel tank - stupid me. ... oil consumption changed so little, I never noticed.
1989 Saab doesn't seem to use any oil - must be an illusion.
So most decent European cars could do +200,000 miles.
Sadly, finding a good/honest mechanic seems to be the key. And I have heard of a few honest dealers - yes I have.
Many people just don't take care of their cars or are are itching for new ones all too often IMHO.
Seems to me you could own a Tesla a life time. How many will try? you?
I have 154k miles. It's still running fine, but issues are starting to creep up. Just like any car, at some point major issues are going to come and then the question is how much money do you want to put into an old car.
Brando
Active Member
Cheburashka
Active Member
I had an '01 Saab 9-3 and it was a complete piece of crap.
That said, with modern cars easily exceeding 200K miles, and oil changes needed only once a year/12-15K miles, the service thing becomes a moot point.
The other great thing about ICE/non-Tesla is the availability of aftermarket, remanufactured, and new/discounted parts. This means there are many service shops and competition around parts sales + service.
Anyways, I would expect a modern ICE to easily outlast a modern Tesla with repairs being far cheaper and parts being far more available.
That said, with modern cars easily exceeding 200K miles, and oil changes needed only once a year/12-15K miles, the service thing becomes a moot point.
The other great thing about ICE/non-Tesla is the availability of aftermarket, remanufactured, and new/discounted parts. This means there are many service shops and competition around parts sales + service.
Anyways, I would expect a modern ICE to easily outlast a modern Tesla with repairs being far cheaper and parts being far more available.
I suppose you have some sort of diploma on your wall to authenticate your opinion?
I think there’s NO basis for you to say “outlasts”. You can worry about the cost if 3rd party service options and parts don’t come, but no evidence to say car won’t last as long.
I don't think I ever sold a car with less than 100,000 miles on it. My 240Z had over 300k (over 100k on the second engine), and the Integra GS-R was closing in on 200k (75k on the second). Both had originals on all the other major items (e.g. transmission). Oh, except the Z ate struts every 60k miles like clockwork for some reason. And alternators. Went through 3 of them.
Take care of them, and even the mechanical stuff will last.
Take care of them, and even the mechanical stuff will last.
I’m with you, but there are also many people who don’t want to deal with it when stuff starts breaking.
I can speak to that. I owned nothing but Mercedes Benzes for the 48 years before I bought the Model S. All the Benzes were bought used. I never had a warranty longer than 30 days, and even then only on the drive train. The Model S was the first new car I have ever had in my life.
In the beginning, I drove MB diesel sedans. Over the years, I bought them with mileage as high as about 117,000 miles. I was not afraid of the high mileage, but I was realistic. Once I had taken my first one to almost 200,000 miles, I knew the cars would suffer wear and corrosion, but I knew what I liked and I paid for maintenance and repairs as needed.
The Diesels had a reputation for being bullet-proof and long-lived, but my first one (a 1965 190Dc) was not. We had to have a short block put in before we reached 100,000 miles. Then it was like a new car for a while.
The early cars I had probably suffered more from rust than from anything else. Living in new England where the roads are treated with salt in winter, inadequate rust-proofing becomes apparent fairly quickly. I had one or two cars that developed holes in the floor, and in one car the driver's seat was leaning to one side because the floor was failing beneath it. But the cars got better with time, and rust was simply not an issue on my last 2 or 3 specimens.
With the exception of that first car, the engines were never the major source of repair costs, and only one car ever had a transmission problem. What cost me the most over time was the suspension and steering system parts -- shocks, springs, tie rods, ball joints, sway bars, etc. On at least 2 cars, the first system to be sorted out after purchase was the suspension and steering, to the tune of $2000 or so each time. Once brought up to snuff, of course, the cars were great to drive. Other major contributors to the operating costs were exhaust systems (especially on the gas cars I owned, because of catalytic converter failures), and brakes. Another costly weak point in some models was the HVAC systems, with replacement of compressors, condensers, fans, control units, and so on. (I don't mean to suggest there were no engine-related costs -- but they were not because of the main engine components. Costly items did include electronic throttle controls, serpentine belts and their tensioners, cooling systems, etc.)
So, I would expect that Teslas will experience similar amounts of wear and tear on the steering and suspension as they age, and on the brakes to the extent that corrosion causes problems (frozen calipers and rusted discs). They will escape the costs of exhaust systems and rusted fuel lines and so on and there will be no tune-ups. But auxiliary systems such as HVAC will fail and wear, and we already know about accessories like the door handles.
But then the issue is electronics. Someone suggested above that we should expect replacements of the MCU, and I would guess the computers and the instrument cluster might fail due to aging of electronics, too. But I do not think we have enough data yet (or it is not widely known).
So, am I "afraid" of 100,000 miles? No, not inherently, but not naive either. But as the Car Talk guys, Click and Clack, always said, it is always cheaper to repair an old car than it is to buy a new one. We can hope that generality applies to Tesla.
And, yet we continue to see failures (not just noise) of drive units on Model X, S and 3, built within the last 2 years along w/that of replacements built within the last 2 years.
Drive trains keep coming up in this thread...
As I reminder for the OP and others here, David99 is on his 8th drive unit: Drive Unit Replacement Poll.
Here are examples of 3 other guys (I'm sure there are more) who have been thru many DU replacements:
6th drive unit replacement and more
Drive Unit Replacement Poll
$2700 to fix MCU. Might DIY, but how much to reprogram new unit?
Besides the above, MCU and door handles already pointed out, seems like half shafts can be another sore point (e.g. Clunking sound is costing me a bundle to fix out of warranty).
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busaman
Member
I service many car make and types the best i have ever seen is a 2011 mercedes e-class diesel taxi with 375 0n the clock and looks like its just come form the showroon inside and out
Where does the 'drive train' end? Since Tesla gives 8 years on the drive train, I wonder where the drive train ends and what isn't covered.
Cheburashka
Active Member
David99, you've had 8 DU replacements in 150K miles and you think the car is reliable? Really?
That's like putting in a new engine or transmission at every oil change in an ICE car.
Sad!
That's like putting in a new engine or transmission at every oil change in an ICE car.
Sad!
There is a story to it. The DU started to make a buzzing sound at light acceleration. It is a 'cosmetic' thing, it didn't affect the DU itself. The car drove just fine. I just felt like an EV should not make that sound. The service center agreed and replaced it and the sound came back after 15 k miles. Replacing it again and again it just kept coming back every 15m miles. In one service visit they swapped it out twice. Finally I got the G-revision of the DU and it's been quiet ever since (about 70k miles ago). There was never a moment where the car stopped or was in any way not performing as expected due to this. In fact I see old cars with the old DU all the time making that sound. Most people don't care or got used to it or think it's OK. There is no need to replace it, it's really just a cosmetic thing. I just insisted and they replaced it for free every time. The reason they replace the whole unit is the service centers do not work on the DU themselves. They are easy to swap out as a unit and they are sent back to the factory were they fix issues. So the fact they replaced the whole unit every time had nothing to do with it failing as a unit, it's just easier to do for Tesla. It's not like replacing an engine that went bad over and over.
I always got a loaner car, it didn't cost me anything and I got a free car wash out of it each time
I have some issues with my car, but after 152k miles it never once let me down. It starts up every days and drives. Based on being on this board for more than 4 years I think it's fair to say, Teslas are not the most reliable cars out there. But they are doing pretty good. There will always be some cars that have failures and I feel sorry for those owners. But as a fleet I think they are doing pretty good. After a certain amount of time and miles wear and tear just causes issues. Tesla is using the same materials and suppliers and parts as any other car manufacturer. They are just as likely to wear out as any other brand.
There is a story to it. The DU started to make a buzzing sound at light acceleration. It is a 'cosmetic' thing, it didn't affect the DU itself. The car drove just fine. I just felt like an EV should not make that sound. The service center agreed and replaced it and the sound came back after 15 k miles. Replacing it again and again it just kept coming back every 15m miles. In one service visit they swapped it out twice. Finally I got the G-revision of the DU and it's been quiet ever since (about 70k miles ago). There was never a moment where the car stopped or was in any way not performing as expected due to this. In fact I see old cars with the old DU all the time making that sound. Most people don't care or got used to it or think it's OK. There is no need to replace it, it's really just a cosmetic thing. I just insisted and they replaced it for free every time. The reason they replace the whole unit is the service centers do not work on the DU themselves. They are easy to swap out as a unit and they are sent back to the factory were they fix issues. So the fact they replaced the whole unit every time had nothing to do with it failing as a unit, it's just easier to do for Tesla. It's not like replacing an engine that went bad over and over.
I always got a loaner car, it didn't cost me anything and I got a free car wash out of it each time
I have some issues with my car, but after 152k miles it never once let me down. It starts up every days and drives. Based on being on this board for more than 4 years I think it's fair to say, Teslas are not the most reliable cars out there. But they are doing pretty good. There will always be some cars that have failures and I feel sorry for those owners. But as a fleet I think they are doing pretty good. After a certain amount of time and miles wear and tear just causes issues. Tesla is using the same materials and suppliers and parts as any other car manufacturer. They are just as likely to wear out as any other brand.
No. It’s not. Tesla decided to centralize all drive unit repairs. Smart decision, for reasons of QC and feedback to engineering. So, neither you nor I know if repairs were equivalent to a timing adjustment, head gasket, or valve job. Sad yourself!
Cheburashka
Active Member
No, Tesla gives that warranty is on the drive unit, not the drive train.
Example: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/Model_S_New_Vehicle_Limited_Warranty_201602_en_NA.pdf
For more examples, Google for site:tesla.com warranty model s drive unit. Since half-shafts, bearings and hubs aren't part of the drive unit, Clunking sound is costing me a bundle to fix out of warranty wasn't covered by the drive unit warranty.
Yes they refurbish. Yes they swap out, but they refurbish so it’s not like throwing away $14k.
Fluid? You mean oil? Belt changes? In engine? What about plugs?
My 06 Prius has a single belt to turn the engine water pump and not connected to anything else other than that and the engine pulley.
Gen 3 Prius (model year 2010 to 2015) did away with all belts as they moved that pump to be electric. The engine pulley is connected to nothing. IIRC, 2012+ Camry Hybrid also went this route and I believe this has continued with all Toyota/Lexus hybrids from that point forward.
Plugs? Intervals of over 100K miles on plugs aren't uncommon. Still on the original spark plugs on my Prius since it doesn't even have 85K miles on it. I might want to change them soon anyway.
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