Or the previously unknown crew member introduced for the purpose of being killed later in the episode?
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FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap
- Thread starter Skalinator
- Start date
Or the previously unknown crew member introduced for the purpose of being killed later in the episode?
Joe F
Disruption is hard.
Right now, I think of myself more as Scotty, and I'm giving her all she's got! Sans AP that is
I just don't want to be the guy in the red shirt. You know, the strange guy who always beamed down to the alien planet with Spock, Kirk, Scotty, and the Dr. For some reason the guy in the red shirt was always the one that had the unusual death.
Sort of a precursor to "Kenny"
Here's a consideration that may positively influence your driving in the future. We keep our hands on the wheel when Tesla autopilot is on for the obvious reason of taking over control if we're not happy with the autopilot's performance, but there's another extremely important reason for keeping your hands firmly on the wheel. Your hands will pick up any attempt of the vehicle to turn and thereby do something unsafe well before your eyes will see your vehicle depart the lane or the seat of your pants and your inner ear will tell you that you're turning. Simply put, your hands on the wheel are guarding the vehicle from turning across the centerline. The wheel has to actually turn to change your direction of travel, and if you are actively guarding against the wheel turning in the wrong direction, you are not giving the vehicle the option of making a dangerous mistake. Quite simply, on a two-lane highway with traffic approaching you are not allowing the wheel to make any quick turns to the left. Once the vehicle heading in the opposite direction has passed, you broaden your field of attention again and cut the autopilot a bit more slack.
Your hands being on the wheel does not provide this level of protection if your mind is wandering, though. It's the combination of traffic awareness and actively guarding the wheel from turning in a dangerous direction that keeps you safe. Ask yourself how long it takes before you take over control of your Tesla when you're not entirely happy with it's performance. In my case, I'd say something like half a second, and if the wheel tried to turn quickly, it'd be an even shorter time. I treat the autopilot as it is intended at this level of development: as a driver assistance device that I allow to turn the wheel and accelerate the vehicle only as long as I am happy with its performance, and not a half second longer. This might sound fatiguing, but it's not. I love highway driving with my AP 1.0 engaged, and you AP 2.0 owners are going to have a considerably more capable machine sometime in the not-so-distant future.
If you have not yet adopted this mindset of never letting your guard down in a potentially hazardous situation (traffic coming the other way on a two-lane highway) then it is best not to use autopilot at such times until you are comfortable with the mindset. I would suggest, however, that driving with autopilot is not all that different than driving without autopilot. Without autopilot, we let the vehicle do what it's doing until we need to make a correction (about every two or three seconds) and with autopilot we're doing the same thing but maybe we go an hour before we have to make a manual correction.
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NerdUno
Member
Robwoodruff
Member
I agree. When I first bought the Model S with AP1 15 months ago, I let it self drive far too much because it did such a good job, it felt safe. After a few close calls, I realize the self driving is great but not ready to be an autopilot. Now I always drive with at least a finger on the wheel so I can feel when it tries to swerve into traffic or off the road. 2 weeks ago I bought an AP2 car and it has been very frustrating to have to drive my self most of the time with no lane keeping available. I still love using the lane keeping feature, so I try to drive on back roads where I can safely drive 35 mph all the way to work and back. It takes me 15 minutes longer to get to work, but the car actually use less battery, and it has been fun to watch it self drive better each day.
Robwoodruff
Member
I decided to take a video of my 2015 AP1 Tesla model S driving home from work today. 20 mile drive, mostly small roads. Mostly does a great job. Some places I have to take over. Definitely does better on the freeway than local roads. Still driving better than the AP2 cars, so far. The main difference between AP1 and 2 right now is speed.
I always find it a bit contradictory that you have to place hands in wheel and be 100% vigilant when AP is on. Kind of like being in a car with a student driver and watching to take control. If that is the case, then isn't using AP properly even more stressful than driving full manual? Or if that's the official message but the non spoken use case that actually sells AP (and the whole car) is actually more of a sit back and relax approach.
I can speak to AP1. "Keep the hands on the wheel" is a CYA official stance.
It works great without keeping hands. You can relax while generally keeping an eye on the road. It is a GREAT stress reliever. Once you get comfortable with it and understand the strengths and weaknesses, there is no going back to old boring cars.
It works great without keeping hands. You can relax while generally keeping an eye on the road. It is a GREAT stress reliever. Once you get comfortable with it and understand the strengths and weaknesses, there is no going back to old boring cars.
I found driving with AP2 on local roads something of a game of chicken--How close to the center line on the left or the curb on the right do I let the car get before I panic and turn it back to the middle of the lane? I haven't hit a curb or crossed over the center line yet, but came close.
Speaking from AP 1.0 experience, most of the time on the highway I am very comfortable with Autopilot and I have a high level of confidence in its performance. The opposite extreme is a wide, winding city road with poor side markings (such as we saw in one video) where the autopilot drives like a drunk, and in such a case it is simply a bad idea to let the car continue weaving. As soon as you see the vehicle performing poorly, it's time to take over, rather than just sit back and see how extreme the situation can become. As far as approaching a centerline, there's no reason to feel uncomfortable. If you're feeling uncomfortable turn the wheel away from the centerline enough to disengage the autopilot and reposition the vehicle in a comfortable location within the lane. Turn it back on when you suspect performance will be suitable.
There's no need to feel like you're playing a game of chicken. That's stressful and not what a driver assistance feature is about. Simply click it off and reengage when you are more likely to be happy with its performance. The whole idea of autopilot right now is to make your driving experience better. Keep your comfort level high by keeping your safety standards high, and often that means clicking autopilot off even if you think it'll likely be okay but it's making you a bit nervous.
Nigel Tufnel
Member
I think what would make my driving experience better is for Elon to throw those of us who serve as guinea pigs some kind of bone. Most of us who bought AP2 had experienced AP1 and have been surprised at the "improvement". Discount on future purchases, warranty extension, free ranger service, Space-X rocket rides, SF to LA Hyperloop tickets...
More likely we've already gotten the bone. Thanks, Elon.
More likely we've already gotten the bone. Thanks, Elon.
Give it a try like the people below and see how you are wrong.
Here's an interesting article about use of autopilot (in a plane).
Autopilot: What it can and can't do
As it makes clear: pilots must be attentive.
In a Model S/X with AP you have to have your hands on the wheel at all times, because you don't have lots of air space around you to give you time to respond.
There's a quote from a pilot in the article above: "The auto flying system does not fly the airplane, ... the pilots fly the plane through the automation."
I think Papafox's approach is great way to approach AP: he's mentally driving the car, but physically only has to drive the car to correct the system. The problem with AP2 so far is that people are reporting a lot of corrections being necessary.
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My question is whether using AP as the rules are officially written, hands on wheel while paying full attendtion, more stressful than driving manually? But that most people do not actually pay 100% attention on ap1 so it is less stressful. On the other hand, ap2 as it is now requires frequent manual correction so you have to pay 100% attention, thus doesn't reduce fatigue.
Given the limitations of AP2 currently, I haven't been able to use it for more than a 2 or 3 mile stretch in stop and go traffic. From what I've seen so far, I would not say that it reduces stress or fatigue. I do think that once high speed AP2 is enabled that might change, but that is pure speculation. About the worst thing AP2 has done so far for me is not being able to take a rather sharp turn on a highway exit (not really designed for that) and trying to drive the car onto the shoulder of the interstate when the sun blinded the camera and it lost the lane marker (which only happened once right after AP2 was first enabled).
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Robwoodruff
Member
Right now AP1 is much less stressful and more fun than driving by yourself. AP2 drives too slowly to be very useful. It will get better with each new update.
Totally agree! I was so excited with all the promise from test drive, haven't seen any of the useful features yet. I hope we are given what was promised with all of the options when I went through sales. I can't even have then auto wipers to work that work flawlessly on my much cheaper 'dumber' cars.
Early adopters should get T shirts!
"I survived AP2"
With a model S or X below it
"I survived AP2"
With a model S or X below it
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