FSD Beta 10.11

[Goose66]

f they scrap the project and it never launches, do you really think Tesla will reimburse all the people...

They will never scrap it. If they do get to a point that they feel like it's not worth spending the money/time moving it further along, they will just pop the champagne and call it "done," and Elon will tweet about how hard "it" was but that he knew they could achieve "it" before all the other companies. And the Tesla fanboys will call out all the naysayers in the forums and try to show how wrong they were.

That's all assuming they just don't play the "regulators are shutting us down" card at some point.

 

[Tombolian]

Pretty sure Bombegranate means the ability to transfer the license from your old trade in Tesla with FSD (trade in to Tesla) to a new Tesla so you don't have to buy FSD again.

Oh yeah? Well, I'm pretty sure you're right! (dang reading comprehension skills got me again!)

 

[Supcom]

By typical industry standards, the life of a product is considered the duration a manufacturer is willing to warranty.

Perhaps you are confusing "warranty" with "support"?

 

[Ramphex]

I’m not sure where you’ll find “Typical industry standards” for something that isn’t even close to a product or service that any industry really has. Also, not sure warranty comes in to play for something like this. …
Your stating its approaching the life of the product. Not sure that life span is easy to define, since the product is still being invented and progressively delivered. Tough argument I think.

Definitely not black and white for most buyers. Some early buyers may have more legal standings in some ways. Still not black and white though.

You’re stance is that it’s approaching a black and white failure to deliver. Then stating it’s fixable by allowing it to be transferable. .. how does that suggestion fit your black and white failure to deliver. ?
That just makes it still beta on a new car.
Not saying I don’t want this to be transferable, but that argument doesn’t support your black and white failure stance. It just makes it easier to hang tight.

I think we all really want this done soon though.

I think what he is saying is that some of the older vehicles are coming up on their industry standard life cycle and those people will not ever get to use the “add-on” they paid for.

I can see where he’s coming from, it would be unreasonable for me to hold on to an old car with a ton of miles, wear and tear, etc and not buy a new car just because one day I might get to use the software add-on that’s not transferable. There’s no reason why one should not be able to “move” FSD from a decommissioned vehicle to their new vehicle, if they never got a chance to take advantage of what they paid for.

 

[M109Rider]

I think what he is saying is that some of the older vehicles are coming up on their industry standard life cycle and those people will not ever get to use the “add-on” they paid for.

I can see where he’s coming from, it would be unreasonable for me to hold on to an old car with a ton of miles, wear and tear, etc and not buy a new car just because one day I might get to use the software add-on that’s not transferable. There’s no reason why one should not be able to “move” FSD from a decommissioned vehicle to their new vehicle, if they never got a chance to take advantage of what they paid for.

I agree with the older vehicle scenario, and ability to transfer.

 

[MP3Mike]

There’s no reason why one should not be able to “move” FSD from a decommissioned vehicle to their new vehicle, if they never got a chance to take advantage of what they paid for.

Of course they have been able to use most of the features they paid for as part of the FSD package...

 

[Ramphex]

Of course they have been able to use most of the features they paid for as part of the FSD package...

Let’s not get into the semantics here. You know what I mean. I don’t need a liberal explanation of how the summon, auto lane change, and “FSD maybe-one-day capability” ARE the features they paid $10k for.

 

[Goose66]

FSD is the ability of the car to drive itself "from door to door" on any roads without the need for driver intervention. There's no way Elon could walk back that definition at this point. Just look at the robotaxi comments - robotaxi implies driverless full-autonomy. There may be a little wiggle room around "any roads" vis-a-vis "within reason."

 

[Yelobird]

I must have purchased a different car then the one people are discussing here? I have used and use daily all of the features outlined in FSD from the day I purchased the car. Beta FSD as noted arrived later and have been using that since early December and rather enjoying it. Managed expectations I am pleased with what I bought and received personally. Don‘t recall taxi service noted on my invoice so maybe others signed up for a different program?

 

[JulienW]

FSD is the ability of the car to drive itself "from door to door" on any roads without the need for driver intervention. There's no way Elon could walk back that definition at this point. Just look at the robotaxi comments - robotaxi implies driverless full-autonomy. There may be a little wiggle room around "any roads" vis-a-vis "within reason."

Again, Tesla sells FSD Capability Package and makes no claims about L4/L5. Elon's talking is aspirational, non specific (like "I'd be surprised if we don't...") and not a legal binding contract.

 

[Tombolian]

I must have purchased a different car then the one people are discussing here? I have used and use daily all of the features outlined in FSD from the day I purchased the car. Beta FSD as noted arrived later and have been using that since early December and rather enjoying it. Managed expectations I am pleased with what I bought and received personally. Don‘t recall taxi service noted on my invoice so maybe others signed up for a different program?

Me. This. You're not alone Yelobird. Will be paying $12K (or whatever the price ends up being) on my next Tesla, no questions about it. It may sound like a lot of money, but how much does it cost if you cause an accident when changing lanes into a car in your blind spot because you didn't rely on automatic lane changing? I dunno, maybe less, I've never done that, but it's really hard to put a price on peace-of-mind. If there was only a thread for only-fans .

 

[Yelobird]

(Moderator Edit)

Because some people don’t make it their life mission to find something wrong in life or complain about doesn’t make one a fan boy.

 

[RowdyMY]

I was going to comment about how yet another thread is lost due to the "many definitions of FSD" folks subscribe to here and plea to get back on track - but 10.11 is already dead - so carry on.

Waiting for 10.11.1 or 10.12 at this point is my vote as well.

@EVNow let me know how your auto park experiment works. I've only gotten parallel park to work once since I've been in the beta (I think 10.4?). And by "work" I mean it popped up as option but wouldn't execute because there was a car behind us. Reasonably spaced in the lane waiting for me to park. Probably as close or further than I would've waited. FWIW the manual says <15, not 3-4 and no mention of lateral turning room.

 

[sleepydoc]

Let’s not get into the semantics here. You know what I mean. I don’t need a liberal explanation of how the summon, auto lane change, and “FSD maybe-one-day capability” ARE the features they paid $10k for.

Except when you’re talking about legal obligations, semantics matter. A lot.

FSD is the ability of the car to drive itself "from door to door" on any roads without the need for driver intervention. There's no way Elon could walk back that definition at this point. Just look at the robotaxi comments - robotaxi implies driverless full-autonomy. There may be a little wiggle room around "any roads" vis-a-vis "within reason."

That’s what Elon has tweeted about, but that’s not what was actually sold to consumers when they bought the car. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending him and I understand the frustration, but I think a lot of people read/saw/heard Elon’s grand plans and then misinterpreted what was actually being sold when they ordered the car.

(Moderator Edit)

No doubt, there are plenty of those people here. I’m certainly not a fan boy but at the same time, I think Tesla is legally meeting their obligations. (At least with the cars recently sold. I don’t know exactly what the earlier verbiage was.) If Tesla were to completely abandon the project then things would be different but as it is, they’re working on it and making slow progress so I don’t think they’re in any way liable, even if people are frustrated with the pace of project.

Another interesting question involves the older cars. If the feature was promised and not delivered by the end of the expected life of the car, are you owed a refund from Tesla?

FWIW, I’ve been in the FSD beta program for a few months. On one hand it needs a lot of work but on the other hand I’ve seen a lot of progress. I was able to drive 15 miles from downtown Minneapolis to a restaurant in a suburb with no interventions. It wasn’t perfect but it managed and was never unsafe. On the way home from the restaurant it then got confused by a turn lane so I had to take over. That pretty well sums up the state of FSD right now.

 

[vamike]

I was going to comment about how yet another thread is lost due to the "many definitions of FSD" folks subscribe to here and plea to get back on track - but 10.11 is already dead - so carry on.

Agreed, so many threads poluted with the same complaints. Very frustrating to wade through the non-sense over and over.

 

[EVNow]

@EVNow let me know how your auto park experiment works. I've only gotten parallel park to work once since I've been in the beta (I think 10.4?). And by "work" I mean it popped up as option but wouldn't execute because there was a car behind us. Reasonably spaced in the lane waiting for me to park. Probably as close or further than I would've waited. FWIW the manual says <15, not 3-4 and no mention of lateral turning room.

Oh - never tried parallel parking. I only do perpendicular.

Someone from London was writing parallel park has gotten significantly worse after they introduced vision based parking. You can probably search for the discussion on that.

 

[roadtrippin]

I've enjoyed following the diverse discussion points. My perspective is that half of the $7k that I paid for FSD was for the functionality at the time I bought it, which is the amount that Tesla counted as revenue at that time. Then, as Tesla increases the functionality, they book more of my remaining $3.5k as revenue. I don't know if they have yet booked more than 50%, but FSD is definitely more capable now than when I bought it 2 years ago, so there's less than $3.5k in FSD value that's in question for me, at the moment. 10 years is the average length I've had a car, so I expect I'll get my $7k worth of use out of it, no matter how long it takes Tesla. If I were to sell my car before then, the sales price would include a reasonable amount for that, too, but again, it's only the residual FSD value that's in question, not my full initial payment.

 

[Goose66]

Again, Tesla sells FSD Capability Package and makes no claims about L4/L5. Elon's talking is aspirational, non specific (like "I'd be surprised if we don't...") and not a legal binding contract.

Ah, so in your world comments from the CEO of the company have no legal weight. I hope I can meet you in court one day!

The "aspirational" nature of Elon's comments is a rather recent thing. He has made plenty of absolute comments in the past about what FSD is, what the cars are equipped to do, as well as when it would be delivered.

 

[Goose66]

My perspective is that half of the $7k that I paid for FSD was for the functionality at the time I bought it, which is the amount that Tesla counted as revenue at that time. Then, as Tesla increases the functionality, they book more of my remaining $3.5k as revenue. I don't know if they have yet booked more than 50%, but FSD is definitely more capable now than when I bought it 2 years ago, so there's less than $3.5k in FSD value that's in question for me, at the moment. 10 years is the average length I've had a car, so I expect I'll get my $7k worth of use out of it, no matter how long it takes Tesla. If I were to sell my car before then, the sales price would include a reasonable amount for that, too, but again, it's only the residual FSD value that's in question, not my full initial payment.

I would never pay for FSD in today's situation. First, you have no idea what value FSD will add to the market value of the car, because there is basically no market for used Telsas at the moment. Further, at $200 a month subscription, and knowing what it is capable of (and, after 4 years, having a pretty good idea of what it will never be capable of), just subscribing in the months I needed Navigate on Autopilot (the only really useful feature), I could have saved thousand of dollars on the cost of the car. If and when a refund is offered, I will take the $2000 (my cost of FSD) gladly, and chalk up the other $5000 I paid for Enhanced AutoPilot as the cost of doing business.

 

[macmee]

I would never pay for FSD in today's situation. First, you have no idea what value FSD will add to the market value of the car, because there is basically no market for used Telsas at the moment. Further, at $200 a month subscription, and knowing what it is capable of (and, after 4 years, having a pretty good idea of what it will never be capable of), just subscribing in the months I needed Navigate on Autopilot (the only really useful feature), I could have saved thousand of dollars on the cost of the car. If and when a refund is offered, I will take the $2000 (my cost of FSD) gladly, and chalk up the other $5000 I paid for Enhanced AutoPilot as the cost of doing business.

I paid 10k for FSD before beta, and now that we have beta the value proposition has only gone up for me.

IMO buying a Tesla and not buying FSD is a little sad, in the sense that you're buying a beautiful vehicle capable of pretty high level self driving, but you're one (albeit expensive) software unlock from making it happen .