FSD Beta 10.69

[AlanSubie4Life]

However that consistent torque is applied a warning has always in the past been issued before a strike.

This is no longer the case. A human cannot apply constant torque. It is easy for the car to distinguish between them. (Some suggested that Tesla do this years ago - apparently they have now decided to do so.)

I provided the link above to the experiments which will tell you what do do, I believe. I think it addresses scroll wheels - as I recall they will not act as a proxy in this case.

In any case I think we can definitively call this mystery solved!

Working as designed, no issues found.

 

[PACEMD]

But there is a reason: they are using a wheel weight to try to defeat the hands on the wheel requirement.

Do you know that for a fact? And is there a hands-on-the-wheel requirement? Scrolling the left knob to cheat with the hands off, is that still allowed?

 

[MP3Mike]

If the new software was assuming a persistent constant torque to the wheel was the result of a so-called nag cheater. However that consistent torque is applied a warning has always in the past been issued before a strike.

Correct, the new software assumes that constant torque is a nag defeat device and will no longer warn before issuing a strike. (Regardless of if that is correct or not.) But they have been testing it in shadow mode for a while.

 

[PACEMD]

This is no longer the case. A human cannot apply constant torque. It is easy for the car to distinguish between them. (Some suggested that Tesla do this years ago - apparently they have now decided to do so.)

I provided the link above to the experiments which will tell you what do do, I believe. I think it addresses scroll wheels - as I recall they will not act as a proxy in this case.

Right, I saw that, thank you. Alan. Constant torque is now assumed to be a nag cheater.

 

[MP3Mike]

And is there a hands-on-the-wheel requirement?

Yes.

Scrolling the left knob to cheat with the hands off, is that still allowed?

Not while there is constant torque applied.

 

[PACEMD]

Correct, the new software assumes that constant torque is a bag defeat device and will no longer earn before issuing a strike. (Regardless of if that is correct or not.) But they have been testing it in shadow mode for a while.

Good, thanks, varying torque or scrolling the wheel randomly now required to prevent a strike with no warning. That was what I suspected and new to this update. Problem solved. Now just to play with the details.

 

[MP3Mike]

scrolling the wheel randomly now required to prevent a strike with no warning.

Only if there isn't a nag defeat device detected.

 

[PACEMD]

Yes.

Not while there is constant torque applied.

But there is not in fact a hands-on-the-wheel requirement, just a requirement to occasionally apply some torque to the wheel or to spin the knob every now and again, always with a warning......

 

[MP3Mike]

But there is not in fact a hands-on-the-wheel requirement, just a requirement to occasionally apply some torque to the wheel or to spin the knob every now and again, always with a warning......

Wrong. There is a hands on the wheel requirement. But their check/enforcement for the hands on the wheel are seeing occasionally torque or control activity.

 

[PACEMD]

Wrong. There is a hands on the wheel requirement. But their check/enforcement for hands on the wheel are seeing occasionally torque or control activity.

But if you can officially cheat by scrolling the knob then hands on the wheel is not in fact required. You can't argue both that it's required but you are officially allowed to cheat. But thanks, Mike, I understand your points. Phil

 

[MP3Mike]

But if you can officially cheat by scrolling the knob then hands on the wheel is not in fact required. You can't argue both that it's required but you are officially allowed to cheat.

That would be like saying there isn't a law against speeding, because you don't get a ticket every time you exceed the speed limit.

The requirement is different than the enforcement. But the cheats are making Tesla increase the enforcement.

 

[PACEMD]

Let me just add that I don't really care that the software has changed how it wants me to play the game, I just needed to know the rules. Strikes without warning are a new thing and left me in the dark. I appreciate the hints and guidance.

I should also add that for me phantom breaking is back and lane confusion traversing highway on-ramps is worse with this update.

 

[PACEMD]

That would be like saying there isn't a law against speeding, because you don't get a ticket every time you exceed the speed limit.

The requirement is different than the enforcement. But the cheats are making Tesla increase the enforcement.

That's not the same issue, it's not a requirement if you are officially allowed to bypass that "requirement". You are not allowed to speed. No one says you are allowed to speed it you do x, y, or x, which we allow.......as an exception.......well, with some exceptions that is.........

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

But if you can officially cheat by scrolling the knob then hands on the wheel is not in fact required.

If you’re really into splitting hairs I would argue that scrolling the knob means you have a hand in contact with a part of the wheel.

The clear intent is to keep the driver engaged, which scroll wheels will do (poorly I would argue), but a nag defeat will not.

As covered, and as you now know, you cannot use the scroll wheels to satisfy the nag if a defeat device is attached (see referenced thread for experiment results).

You can only use the scroll wheels if you have no nag device or you are using occasional torque.

 

[bhakan]

Wonder if there was some weird server issue that might’ve caused it. There was no warning or anything prior to the yelling, beeping, and the large grab the yoke and steer manually message…. I wonder if any sort of server transition to v11 could’ve messed with the matrix

I can confirm and no warnings! Just the red death hand with scream. Wheel torque did not disengage and was awarded with a strike. I was trying to use wheel torque as I was already paying attention to the road. But it happened in about 5-10 secs.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I can confirm and no warnings! Just the red death hand with scream. Wheel torque did not disengage and was awarded with a strike. I was trying to use wheel torque as I was already paying attention to the road. But it happened in about 5-10 secs.

Your mystery, on the other hand, persists. Once you get the large red hands and wheel it is over as I understand it.

Most likely yours has to do with either too many failures to nag satisfy, or some software/hardware issue (maybe related to camera), as we have discussed many times.

 

[PACEMD]

Oh, forgive me, Mike, and Alan, you are saying touching the scroll knob is hands on the wheel. Technically you are correct, Sirs! Anyway, enough, thanks. I'll try being a gentleman, as defined, from here out.......

 

[Ramphex]

My vote is on Tesla messing with the servers

 

[PACEMD]

My vote is on Tesla messing with the servers

Have you verified that on Twitter?

 

[Dan D.]

If you’re really into splitting hairs I would argue that scrolling the knob means you have a hand in contact with a part of the wheel.

Those who are using a S3XY button to simulate a scroll from a remote location are the new cheaters who are using a loophole. They don't have hands on the wheel. How long before Tesla corrects this?