I think we have to be clear about what we're talking about, but I do have questions!
First, I completely understand prior to the beta, what the use cases were, and that many of those are quite useful. I'm not at all talking about NoA/AP etc.; this is not part of FSD so that's not what I'm talking about (it's part of EAP). I use these frequently. On the freeway it does pretty well, although I do sometimes have to apologize to my wife or passengers. Overall, these features are useful.
I don't do much freeway driving (post-covid). But when I do - I use AP all the time. Not NOA - mainly because I like to select my lane and stick to it. I avoid driving in peak traffic.
I'm really not talking about outside the city use. There's also a lot of additional value on country roads outside the city (where perhaps AP might be unavailable sometimes). It probably does very well on these types of roads as long as they're not too twisty.
I use it on country roads 100% - but I rarely drive on those.
However, that's not what we're talking about here. We're discussing the city streets aspect ONLY of course, since we're talking about FSD Beta. So in that context, I have a lot of questions about it being "weird to drive without it."
Yes, city/sub-urban driving is what I do most and use it "all the time".
1) What sort of city-type roads do you use it on?
- Mostly sub-urban
2) What sort of traffic do you use it in?
- low to medium. I do disengage in school zones.
3) Do you use it to turn corners, negotiate complex intersections, etc.?
- Yes, but will disengage based on how its doing. Will also disengage at roundabouts, when needed.
4) Do you use it with passengers in the car frequently?
- Yes, but mostly kids. My wife used to be very worried, but not so much after I pointed out she drives similarly
5) If you're not using it to turn corners, and you're on surface streets, you really re-engage it all the time for just the straight stretches?
- I let it do 80% of turns.
6) If you do use it to turn corners, what do you do when it goes super slowly? Do you use it when other traffic is around? Do people honk at you?
- I've not had many occasions when it goes super-slowly. But in general I'd disengage when it goes slowly with lot of traffic. If the traffic is low, I'll press the accelerator.
7) What % of the time do you use it in these situations?
I disengage frequently - but will reengage unless I'm literally within a 100 ft of destination. But according to my analysis - over 50% of disengagements are because of roundabouts.
I'm just trying to understand.
I understand.
It's very strange to see Whole Mars' use scenario, for example - it doesn't seem useful at all for him (it's extremely slow, doesn't do stop signs well, etc.)! So I wonder if you're talking about that type of scenario, or something a bit different? I definitely can understand that in simpler city situations (for example I have a several mile long straight stretch with a lot of traffic lights, where it could be useful, if it could figure out not to camp next to other cars when driving), it would be a lot more useful.
Just want to know what we're discussing.
Omar is mostly driving in the "city" - and I drive mostly in sub-urbs. That is the key difference - so I've longer stretches of roads, but also easy traffic lights and turns. But overall my disengagement rate is not great ... but, then it is better than just AP on city roads before FSD Beta. I used AP on surface streets all the time too (where it worked - obviously not on unmarked roads).
