FSD Beta 10.69

[Daniel in SD]

“ When I am concerned ” meaning you don’t do that when you are not. How do you know that’s not in his moment of surprise.

@AlanSubie4Life is always concerned.

Actually, he did say when he is concerned.

tight situation with nearby obstacles or vehicles

So, when doing the worst thing at the wrong time might cause a problem if you're not holding the wheel.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

How do you know that’s not in his moment of surprise.

I mean, he specifically said he was trying to avoid an island. Seems like a situation where there are “nearby obstacles.”

Anyway this is all kind of silly. The wheel can most definitely make large fast spinning movements, the original complaint I think (comments about struggling to wrest control). These won’t happen if you are holding it. If you let them happen you could definitely be going completely the wrong way. This could lead to a bad time. It definitely takes a lot of effort to steer the car back on line AFTER it has happened. You’re not so much struggling with FSD’s steering (it should quickly and easily disengage) as you are the new momentum of the car that has developed over the course of a second (or whatever) that it has taken to react. That could be substantial, and it could even be unrecoverable depending on your reaction time. One second is a VERY long time. Nearly an eternity.

 

[cbdream99]

After dinner at a restaurant, I decided to go to best buy, so after I engaged fsdb, the drive is very smooth, right turn is just like a human driver, when the current lane is slow, it will switch lane to pass the slower traffic, what impressed me when approaching the bestbuy at the strip mall, the nav says turn in un-named road in 0.5 m…. I was wondering what the heck is that, there is no road to turn, but it turns out to be the very short turn area for the parking lot and after the turn Best Buy is just right in front of me at the end of the parking lot, though fsdb stopped right after the turn, this is impressive ! - There are multiple turn areas in the strip mall, but it picks the exact one to turn, very cool.

 

[FSDtester#1]

Wow… I reported and complained about this same issue last October - a year ago! Safety not a priority at Telsa or what?!

THIS IS NOT AN EDGE CASE!!!

@WilliamG

Is @WilliamG your parole officer or something??

 

[kabin]

I'm beginning to notice a moderate case of myopia with 69.2.2. It was daytime, clear weather, clean windshield. Most noticeable on one stretch of road, ~50mph speeds, approaching a distant red traffic light, and no lead vehicle. My instinct told me to slow well before before but FSDb continued on at the set speed until excess braking was required. A coffee in the car would spill. I don't think it's anticipating a green light and even then that's doable with much less braking force. In the future I plan to disengage and hope for a future software fix.

 

[FSDtester#1]

I'm beginning to notice a moderate case of myopia with 69.2.2. It was daytime, clear weather, clean windshield. Most noticeable on one stretch of road, ~50mph speeds, approaching a distant red traffic light, and no lead vehicle. My instinct told me to slow well before before but FSDb continued on at the set speed until excess braking was required. A coffee in the car would spill. I don't think it's anticipating a green light and even then one can do that with a slight deceleration. In the future I plan to disengage and hope for a future software fix.

This has been a long standing issue for fsd. Probably one of my main complaints.
One of the car's main benefits is regenerative braking, and it sucks using your brakes.
Waste of range and brake pads. Has been this way since they opened beta to me last October. Your watching and thinking... okay... start the regen... nothing, then bang, heavy braking....
I do remember one version, maybe 7 months ago that it was much better.
It didn't last...

 

[willow_hiller]

Came across this web comic today. It pretty perfectly encapsulates everything I think about people that are harshly negative about FSD Beta. It's titled "In Progress":

Source: In Progress - Ctrl+Alt+Del Comic

 

[jebinc]

Is @WilliamG your parole officer or something?

You said you wouldn’t tell! Damn you!

 

[wknickless]

But then I would see the nag (assuming it is a response to one and you aren’t constantly adjusting it)! The goal is zero nags; I need to keep my focus on the road, not the screen.

+1 on being patient and taking the time to learn how to torque the wheel just enough to stop the flashing blue, while not putting in so much torque that you disengage. That flashing blue is easy for me to see in my peripheral vision, and it instantly disappears when I hit just the right amount of wheel torque. It gives me the instant feedback I need to learn without me having to take my focus off the road ahead.

 

[wknickless]

I generally have my hands on my knees right next to the steering wheel or have my left arm on the arm rest and a couple fingers on the wheel. I've tried keeping my hands on the wheel and find it very difficult to do so without causing disengagements and/or rather tiring to hold my arms out without physically holding the wheel. When the car is doing a 'high risk' maneuver or one where I have a suspicion it will have difficulty I have my hands hovering over the wheel but physically can't do that all the time.

Ditto hands on knees with seat raised high enough / wheel lowered enough that it's natural to have my fingers loosely on the wheel at all times. I keep my fingers on the wheel ready to grab if it starts doing something crazy. And I've also learned how to tighten my finger grip--just enough--so that when the wheel turns it detects my drag and considers it enough torque to reset the flashing blue warning.

 

[bhakan]

Please don't tell me how to drive. The grip had nothing to do with what happened other then I'm glad my hands were on the wheel. You weren't at the wheel when I had to make an instant decision and obviously I made the right one. Remember context is key and this was about a year ago when FSD was even more erratic then today. FSD is making a jerky 90 degree right hand turn and FSD all of a sudden decides to go 120 degrees the opposite way it's an interesting experience. Remember I stated I confirmed what happened by going back and recreating the problem. Emailed Tesla and after several updates the mapping error was fixed.

By the way got my drivers license in 1968 and have a perfect driving record, with no accidents not even a minor ding or a moving violation. And that is driving in greater Boston the entire time.

I agree. This 69.2.2 is the worst for me and I have been using AP/EAP/FSD in various Tesla MS. This version makes me not to want to drive this weekend on a long drive. This afternoon I was on FSD and there was a flagger in one lane with a stop sign. There was a car stopped on that lane. My car's FSD went to the next lane on the left and was speeding where I was supposed to be stopping. Obviously, I disengaged. Total regression. I do not trust it in my crowded traffic where it makes mistakes all the time and I am holding the yoke.

 

[g1000x]

I'm beginning to notice a moderate case of myopia with 69.2.2. It was daytime, clear weather, clean windshield. Most noticeable on one stretch of road, ~50mph speeds, approaching a distant red traffic light, and no lead vehicle. My instinct told me to slow well before before but FSDb continued on at the set speed until excess braking was required. A coffee in the car would spill. I don't think it's anticipating a green light and even then that's doable with much less braking force. In the future I plan to disengage and hope for a future software fix.

Probably one of my most disengage reasons. It doesn’t anticipate very well. Even with lead cars, it loves to just ride along at the set speed until it is too late to react so it brakes hard.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I don't think it's anticipating a green light and even then that's doable with much less braking force.

Your watching and thinking... okay... start the regen... nothing, then bang, heavy braking....

it loves to just ride along at the set speed until it is too late to react so it brakes hard.

Personal preference, guys. No way to prevent this. Not even a human can stop smoothly. We just need to get used to how FSD drives, we can't expect everyone to be happy with how it drives; these expectations are unreasonable.

 

[sleepydoc]

was dramatic for me, with the surprise of the car doing something so unexpected and so wrong.
(sorry for the inadvertent double posting.)

Welcome to FSD beta. I'm not being sarcastic - this is part of FSDb and everyone who has used it for any period of time can tell stories like this. it's going along fine, doing a splendid job when suddenly it does the most boneheaded thing that catches you off guard.

That said, school busses and school zones are known issues that are not programmed into the code at all so don't bother waiting to see how it will do - it will fail, guaranteed.

 

[wknickless]

Here is the scenario for me. The car unexpectedly makes a jerky wheel move that requires a takeover and quick turning of the steering wheel in the opposite direction to avoid a problem. It takes much more of an effort than effort and the word "wrestling" is an apt description.

30+ years ago when dating my (now) wife I noticed that her surprise reactions were much slower than mine. I could hear a phone ring, turn my head towards her, and then watch her startle reaction begin. Much giggling and laughter and fun bonding times. These days she struggles with balance while walking--and I think it's because her inner-ear-to-brain-to-leg-muscle control loop is slower than mine, and therefore her muscle reactions must be greater to restore a vertical posture.

Even with her slow reaction time she's an excellent driver. She keeps her distance, staying out of situations that might require a fast reaction. And even though her vision tests as less acute than mine, she can pick out tiny birds and animals in trees alongside the road that I can't see. For whatever reason she seems wired to get better perception from balance, vision and hearing but at the expense of slower reaction time. Again, that improved perception helps her see indications of developing situations further out than I would, and therefore helps her avoid having to quickly react.

She absolutely hates FSD Beta. The first time she experienced it (as a passenger) the car stopped in the middle of a protected green-arrow left turn, and she started shouting "BAD TESLA BAD TESLA"! (I hadn't yet learned to be prepared to goose it through turns with the accelerator.). Sometimes she'll cry out in pain from the jerking and swerving. When she's tried driving with it, her reaction to an FSD Beta stupid move has been very slow and therefore required "wrestling" the car back into a safe trajectory.

So when she's in the passenger seat I drive the car without FSD Beta, and generally not even Adaptive Cruise Control (because phantom braking causes her to cry out in pain).

Me? When driving alone I love it--including the occasional stupid move it throws at me!

 

[momo3605]

Personal preference, guys. No way to prevent this. Not even a human can stop smoothly. We just need to get used to how FSD drives, we can't expect everyone to be happy with how it drives; these expectations are unreasonable.

Disagree. FSDb should slow down for red lights way earlier than what it does. It usually sees car/light in the distance before slowing down, so it should be doable. It’s inefficient and jarring coming up to a red light at 50, and then it slamming on the brakes to slow down at the last minute

 

[AndrewZ]

Came across this web comic today. It pretty perfectly encapsulates everything I think about people that are harshly negative about FSD Beta. It's titled "In Progress":

Source: In Progress - Ctrl+Alt+Del Comic

A simple concrete slab and rough framing so does not qualify as being half done a house lol, that’s maybe 30% at best!

Similarly I think people are so critical of FSD purely because the bar was set so high, it could never measure up against the promise of generalized robotaxis right around the corner despite how remarkable it is to have this technology out on public roads.

 

[jebinc]

Welcome to FSD beta. I'm not being sarcastic - this is part of FSDb and everyone who has used it for any period of time can tell stories like this. it's going along fine, doing a splendid job when suddenly it does the most boneheaded thing that catches you off guard.

That said, school busses and school zones are known issues that are not programmed into the code at all so don't bother waiting to see how it will do - it will fail, guaranteed.

But why is this not a priority for Tesla? That’s the operative question - after a year of this.

 

[Patsan]

I agree. This 69.2.2 is the worst for me and I have been using AP/EAP/FSD in various Tesla MS. This version makes me not to want to drive this weekend on a long drive. This afternoon I was on FSD and there was a flagger in one lane with a stop sign. There was a car stopped on that lane. My car's FSD went to the next lane on the left and was speeding where I was supposed to be stopping. Obviously, I disengaged. Total regression. I do not trust it in my crowded traffic where it makes mistakes all the time and I am holding the yoke.

Same thing here. Been using this for Going on 2 years and this is more of a regression then a step forward. Every other update has been pretty good, but I think I need an update for the update...

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Disagree. FSDb should slow down for red lights way earlier than what it does. It usually sees car/light in the distance before slowing down, so it should be doable. It’s inefficient and jarring coming up to a red light at 50, and then it slamming on the brakes to slow down at the last minute

C’mon @momo3605 …sigh. I insist emojis and /s are not needed. I would have thought you would have seen some of my posts in the last 100 pages. I expected responses from others…but…

To be clear: Humans are way better at anticipating and stopping than FSD.