FSD Beta 10.69

[willow_hiller]

I saw a post a while back with a link to a video of what looked like a huge hole in a tunnel. It was actually an illusion caused by a puddle that became clear when another car drove by and disturbed the water but it looked completely real when you first saw it.

Quick google yields this:

 

[Dewg]

I saw a post a while back with a link to a video of what looked like a huge hole in a tunnel. It was actually an illusion caused by a puddle that became clear when another car drove by and disturbed the water but it looked completely real when you first saw it.

I'm curious how lidar would handle that video I posted. Lasers would reflect off the water like a mirror, so the return feed would be inaccurate.

 

[EVNow]

Yes BUT they are LOOKING to the left since there is no traffic to worry about from the right. I was crossing from the right. Also it was not a no Turn On Red. I'm just musing that right turns on red ARE dangerous to VRUs coming from the right.

Absolutely .... but one thing you would definitely look for are VRUs on the right (quite frequent here).

BTW, its not just right turns at traffic lights - even cars getting out of parking lots can be dangerous for VRUs.

 

[Oil Freedom]

Elon previously mentioned that they were working on detecting false positives like someone wearing a t-shirt with a stop sign on it. How about these trompe l'oeil though?

 

[Gwgan]

Now imagine being in that tunnel with an IQ of 50 but with faster processing than humans and that's how FSD AI feels.

 

[Dewg]

Elon previously mentioned that they were working on detecting false positives like someone wearing a t-shirt with a stop sign on it. How about these trompe l'oeil though?

OMG I love those art pieces. The problem is that you have to look at them at the right angle for the 3D effect to work. Don't know what a car would do if it was at the wrong angle, or at the right angle. I'd imagine it would panic stop or try to route around it.

 

[CharleyBC]

OMG I love those art pieces. The problem is that you have to look at them at the right angle for the 3D effect to work. Don't know what a car would do if it was at the wrong angle, or at the right angle. I'd imagine it would panic stop or try to route around it.

Perhaps it would stop and admire it.

 

[2101Guy]

OMG I love those art pieces. The problem is that you have to look at them at the right angle for the 3D effect to work. Don't know what a car would do if it was at the wrong angle, or at the right angle. I'd imagine it would panic stop or try to route around it.

Im guessing it would react similarly and with same consistency as the way Tesla's green light chime does at a stoplight that contains multiple straight ahead lanes/lights next to a turn lane/separate signal light.....

 

[Dewg]

Im guessing it would react similarly and with same consistency as the way Tesla's green light chime does at a stoplight that contains multiple straight ahead lanes/lights next to a turn lane/separate signal light.....

So sometimes stop and sometimes route around it?

 

[tivoboy]

Sure would like a 69.2.1 that included SOME of the additional user features of 36.5 (or something since May) included while we wait for 68.3 to get any better than 69.1 or 69.2 for that matter.

 

[Dewg]

This evening, I probably came the closest I have yet to an accident on FSDb. The other driver would have been at fault, and I agree with the choice FSDb made, but that doesn't make it any less startling! Had the opportunity to clip a video so you can judge for yourself:

Speed limit is 35, I was going 40. For just a few frames here in the top left you can make out the two pedestrians that were crossing the road. They had reached the median by the time my vehicle came to a stop in front of the crosswalk. You can see the vehicle immediately in front of mine considered stopping for them but decided against it at the last minute. FSDb stopped quickly, but it was a reasonable amount of decel.

View attachment 865532

And of course the vehicle behind me was rapidly changing lanes and didn't notice I had stopped. I think their AEB kicked in because I could hear their tires screech:
View attachment 865540

And then the pedestrians paused for a second upon hearing the tires screech and decided to walk backwards along the median to another crosswalk instead of proceeding to cross:

View attachment 865542

Here is a recent video from Chris showing similar circumstances with the median for peds crossing:

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Here is a recent video from Chris showing similar circumstances with the median for peds crossing:

Now THAT was a required stop (pedestrian in median, proceeding and “upon” the lane (making up my own definition of “upon”)). Terribly executed, of course.

Just terrible. It literally should know what to do several seconds prior. It sees everything.

Separate topic, illustrating how good it is in some ways:

It’s actually quite difficult at simple ULTs to keep up with FSD’s decision making. It’s my habit to look left until clear (with infrequent glances to right). So when traffic clears from left, I always do one last check to right. This takes a tiny amount of time. Now I have to make sure I look right as well so I am ready to approve FSD’s decision when it proceeds. Otherwise it will start going before I do the final check to the right (which FSD has already done), which can lead to disengagement (or alternatively, allowing the surge into the intersection, yelling “YOLO!!!”).

Anyway I will have to modify my habits to keep up!

Overall in spite of its abilities it is still quite bad at threading the needle though. Quite paradoxical.

 

[JulienW]

Now THAT was a required stop (pedestrian in median, proceeding and “upon” the lane (making up my own definition of “upon”)). Terribly executed, of course.

Just terrible. It literally should know what to do several seconds prior. It sees everything.....

Not sure I follow. Beta DID stop for both pedestrians. How is it "Terribly executed"? As a multi times a week runner in a congested city, that was even hit by a car Monday that did do a "Terribly executed" job of NOT stopping. It was fantastic sight and wish all cars would stop like that when I'm crossing.

EDIT: I will probably be shot (if I don't get run over) yelling and cursing cars that don't properly stop.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

How is it "Terribly executed"?

Executed implies it was done (which is good).

Terribly done because it made the pedestrian think about whether the car was going to yield to him, and the stop was extremely jarring. Check it out, accelerating promptly to extremely high speed (15mph) directly at the pedestrian and then rapidly removing the energy. Just awful.

Just completely unnecessary given superhuman perception and VRU intention prediction capability (superhuman abilities are not required for excellent performance here).

Your issue where too got hit was because the stop was not executed (obviously did stop eventually but not relevant; if you hit the pedestrian you did not stop).

 

[JulienW]

Executed implies it was done (which is good).

Terribly done because it made the pedestrian think about whether the car was going to yield to him, and the stop was extremely jarring. Check it out, accelerating promptly to extremely high speed (15mph) directly at the pedestrian and then rapidly removing the energy.

Just completely unnecessary given superhuman perception and prediction capability (superhuman abilities are not required for excellent performance here).

As I stated I'm out there on the streets running hours every week. Many, many human driven cars make me think they are not going to yield and I "force" them to a jarring stop. Although I failed Monday and ended up on a hood. Sure Beta could be better and will improve but that behavior is SOOOOOOOOO much safer than many humans and the incident can't be ANY safer. While not perfect it was FAAAAR from terrible. Terrible is NOT stopping and cutting them off. Which Beta has done in the past and humans are doing right now and all the time.

EDIT: Terrible is also stopping for pedestrians that are not intending to cross. And it STILL does this and may always be problem since it can't "read" the intentions of humans like we can.

[runner's rant]When humans are driving they see us pedestrians as "roaches" while in their superior and smirk metal cans. How dare us lowly pedestrians hold them up for 3 seconds.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

As I stated I'm out there on the streets running hours every week. Many, many human driven cars make me think they are not going to yield and I "force" them to a jarring stop. Sure Beta could be better and will improve but that behavior is SOOOOOOOOO much safer than many humans and the incident can't be ANY safer. While not perfect it was FAAAAR from terrible. Terrible is NOT stopping and cutting them off. Which Beta has done in the past.

[runner's rant]When humans are driving they see us pedestrians as "roaches" while in their superior and smirk metal cans. How dare us lowly pedestrians hold them up for 3 seconds.

I’m not arguing that FSD Beta made the wrong decision. Not yielding would not be terrible execution, it would be a failure (requiring a disengagement). (Similarly, yielding when not required is also a failure, as it is during a driving exam, and also requires intervention.)

It’s possible for it to do things well. Sometimes unexpected things happen and then I expect rapid brake application.

I’m accustomed to “making” cars stop. And the people I have to make stop are also executing poorly.

Also, be careful out there. I know it sucks to break stride, but what can you do; better than breaking a leg.

 

[sleepydoc]

As I stated I'm out there on the streets running hours every week. Many, many human driven cars make me think they are not going to yield and I "force" them to a jarring stop. Although I failed Monday and ended up on a hood. Sure Beta could be better and will improve but that behavior is SOOOOOOOOO much safer than many humans and the incident can't be ANY safer. While not perfect it was FAAAAR from terrible. Terrible is NOT stopping and cutting them off. Which Beta has done in the past and humans are doing right now and all the time.

EDIT: Terrible is also stopping for pedestrians that are not intending to cross. And it STILL does this and may always be problem since it can't "read" the intentions of humans like we can.

[runner's rant]When humans are driving they see us pedestrians as "roaches" while in their superior and smirk metal cans. How dare us lowly pedestrians hold them up for 3 seconds.

For Alan, ‘terrible’ seems to be anything less than ’perfect,’ with perfect defined as how he would have personally done it. Sorry, 15 MPH is not an ‘extremely high speed,’ either.

That stop was as good or better than a human would have done, IMO.

 

[momo3605]

For Alan, ‘terrible’ seems to be anything less than ’perfect,’ with perfect defined as how he would have personally done it. Sorry, 15 MPH is not an ‘extremely high speed,’ either.

That stop was as good or better than a human would have done, IMO.

Until FSDb can make stops consistently using regen and not wait until the last minute and then brake hard with the friction pads, i'm going to agree with Alan that FSDb stops suck

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Sorry, 15 MPH is not an ‘extremely high speed,’ either.

Apparently you have never been hit by a car going 3mph.

That stop was as good or better than a human would have done, IMO.

I just can’t even.

Not what was being discussed, but worth mentioning….Entering, I hear this is optimal driving style after the first rain?:

And this was actually the second time it jammed on the brakes on approach. Comically bad.

 

[JulienW]

Apparently you have never been hit by a car going 3mph.

I have it was probably going faster and it was just this Monday.

No doubt I'm a little overly passionate but as a LONG time runner I have been in the mix a LOT and humus can be indecisive, inconsiderate, distracted and/or malicious of pedestrians. At least Beta has no passion even if not perfect.