FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[EVNow]

This Boring stuff is getting boring and is completely OT. Pls take it elsewhere.

 

[Knightshade]

Are you arguing that if Tesla wanted they could deploy fully autonomous cars in the tunnels, and the only thing holding them back was regulators? I think it's pretty obvious Tesla's technology is nowhere near good enough for that.

I don't think that's "obvious" at all.

Given how simple tunnel driving in fixed routes is, and with Boring having control over any markings for them- yes I think this would be possible today.

And I say that as someone who doesn't think GENERALIZED Robotaxis are anywhere near close to being ready.

 

[whitex]

I literally just cited a news story debunking your claim the lack of automation was NOT due to regulators.

It literally said it was due to regulators

Are you gonna avoid admitting your error by playing a semantic game about if a tunnel is a "road"?

Sad.

I bet you the tunnel does not fall under the same regulations as public roads. I never said it is not regulated, just that it does not fall under the road regulations - read my original post. Words do matter, skipping over one can change a whole meaning of the sentence.

 

[whitex]

You don't understand why different regulators have different regulations?

(or apparently the difference between state and local regulations)

Yikes.

Of course there are different regulations, though you seemed to argue with me that it's only semantics when I said that the tunnel does not fall under the same regulations as public roads.

What I was saying is that tunnel traffic regulations are simpler than public roads, therefore it should be easier to convince regulators to allow autonomous cars there. Waymo and others have convinced regulators to let them drive the public around fully autonomously, while Tesla couldn't even convince regulators to drive autonomously in a tunnel (and of course not public streets either).

 

[whitex]

Given how simple tunnel driving in fixed routes is, and with Boring having control over any markings for them- yes I think this would be possible today.

Evidently the Las Vegas tunnel regulators didn't thinks so, or perhaps Boring didn't even try to convince them because they didn't think they'd succeed.

 

[Knightshade]

I bet you the tunnel does not fall under the same regulations as public roads. I never said it is not regulated, just that it does not fall under the road regulations - read my original post. Words do matter, skipping over one can change a whole meaning of the sentence.

Here's your original post, so we can be clear on how dishonestly you are arguing (I've bolded the most relevant bit for clarity)

As it stands now, FSD cannot even handle the Boring Co. Las Vegas tunnel, which is extremely simplified driving scenario as compared to a cost to coast drive, and not subject to road regulations so no excuse for Elon that he's waiting for regulators

See where you claimed "waiting for regulators" was "no excuse" for not being automated in the tunnels?

And then I cited the fact the regulators refused to approve automation in the tunnels in contradiction of your false claim?


Rather than admit your obvious error, you doubled down on semantics, going back to the word "road" as if the entire rest of the sentence didn't exist.

What I was saying is that tunnel traffic regulations are simpler than public roads, therefore it should be easier to convince regulators

Except that is not what you said

You said there WAS NO waiting for regulators at all.

This is flat out false


If you can't argue honestly- or even admit it when caught being dishonest- there's little point in continuing to post, but you do you I guess. FUD train gotta roll right?

Evidently the Las Vegas tunnel regulators didn't thinks so, or perhaps Boring didn't even try to convince them because they didn't think they'd succeed.

If they didn't ask the regulators how can it have been reported the regulators didn't approve it?


Your lies keep getting dumber.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Time to stop following this thread.....

 

[Bladerskb]

And then I cited the fact the regulators refused to approve automation in the tunnels in contradiction of your false claim?

They did not refuse to approve automation (if you are referring to autonomous systems), this is a flat out lie. They rejected the use of active safety systems and driver assist systems. This makes 1000% sense due to the potential of false positives due to close quarters. Its either autonomous or its not.

If this was waymo or any other company you would be taking the stance that their autonomous system clearly weren't good enough or it would be approved by the regulators. Basically what @whitex is talking about you would be saying.

Also @whitex literally said "road regulations" he even bolded ROAD in the next post.
You take peoples statements out of context so many times its ridiculous. All so you can say that "they are wrong" and "you are right".
Then you post the first post they made that you replied to as though it means anything. When its actually showcasing that you are clearly not interested in having a discussion and only ever interested in "you are wrong, i am right".
Anyway i'm done getting roped into bad faith arguments.

 

[Knightshade]

They did not refuse to approve automation (if you are referring to autonomous systems), this is a flat out lie.

Of course it's not.

They rejected the use of active safety systems and driver assist systems.

Which underlie the same functionality

Tesla ran an autonomous system to produce the video shown at autonomy day (in a significantly more complex scenario than in a single lane tunnel, and did it in a single take unlike the infamous 2016 one)

Do you think they used some entirely unrelated system to do that? Or did they use something that incorporates the existing driver assist systems?

Anyway i'm done getting roped into bad faith arguments.

Dude you do more projection than any other poster on here with this nonsense- I've lost track of how many outright dishonest claims you've made, then when shown sources your claims are false you shove the goalposts another few miles and refuse to admit being caught, again, doing it.

 

[EVNow]

Time to stop following this thread.....

I've reported the OT posts. They will soon be cleaned up.

 

[Habm4]

What safety score is required to get the update?

 

[dramsey]

What safety score is required to get the update?

What a great question! Nobody knows. A lot of us here who have maintained 98, 99, and 100 scores have been waiting for weeks or months for FSD beta. As best we can tell nobody new has been admitted to the program since late December. Nobody knows why, because Tesla has maintained complete radio sIlence.

 

[sleepydoc]

What a great question! Nobody knows. A lot of us here who have maintained 98, 99, and 100 scores have been waiting for weeks or months for FSD beta. As best we can tell nobody new has been admitted to the program since late December. Nobody knows why, because Tesla has maintained complete radio sIlence.

I’d say at least 98. My guess is there are other factors at play, though. They probably want data from diverse areas so I wouldn’t be surprised if your location comes into play. They also likely want to Test it on all of their hardware variations, too.

 

[EVNow]

What safety score is required to get the update?

Nobody new (or for that matter old) is getting FSD Beta. Its been halted for unknown reasons - will have to wait.

 

[black knight 3]

I’d say at least 98. My guess is there are other factors at play, though. They probably want data from diverse areas so I wouldn’t be surprised if your location comes into play. They also likely want to Test it on all of their hardware variations, too.

it's hard to know. I have 2 new Tesla's with FSD, one in November and one in December in the San Francisco Bay Area. I achieved 100 safety score on both and was entered into the program like clockwork exactly the 7th day after requesting enrollment. Tesla is more common than Camry in this area so I don't think diversity was factored into the equation. It's possible they have enough enrollments and decided to slow down or halt new requests.

 

[dramsey]

I finally hit my limit today.

I've maintained an overall 99 score since late November, and never received any FSD beta on my computer- and camera-upgraded 2016 Model S. Yes, I paid for FSD more than 5 years ago.

I've been increasingly frustrated by the-- shall we say-- timid driving style necessary to maintain an FSD-worthy score. Of course, it's netted me nothing except high levels of stress.

This morning while driving someone pulled in front of me, setting off a forward collision warning and necessitating hard braking. Well, there goes my score for the day! I started mentally planning another 75-mile early morning highway drive to get my score back up.

And then I realized: THIS IS INSANE. FSD rollouts have stopped. Even when they weren't, a month of 99 wasn't good enough. Who knows when they'll start again? I'm so worried about my score I limit my Model S drives to well-known routes so there are no surprises. I no longer look forward to driving my wonderful car.

So I opted out. If FSD rollouts ever start again, I may opt back in. Then again, I may not. This whole experience has really soured me on the car and the company, but maybe a few weeks of driving without constantly worrying about my safety score will help. We'll see.

 

[momo3605]

S

I finally hit my limit today.

I've maintained an overall 99 score since late November, and never received any FSD beta on my computer- and camera-upgraded 2016 Model S. Yes, I paid for FSD more than 5 years ago.

I've been increasingly frustrated by the-- shall we say-- timid driving style necessary to maintain an FSD-worthy score. Of course, it's netted me nothing except high levels of stress.

This morning while driving someone pulled in front of me, setting off a forward collision warning and necessitating hard braking. Well, there goes my score for the day! I started mentally planning another 75-mile early morning highway drive to get my score back up.

And then I realized: THIS IS INSANE. FSD rollouts have stopped. Even when they weren't, a month of 99 wasn't good enough. Who knows when they'll start again? I'm so worried about my score I limit my Model S drives to well-known routes so there are no surprises. I no longer look forward to driving my wonderful car.

So I opted out. If FSD rollouts ever start again, I may opt back in. Then again, I may not. This whole experience has really soured me on the car and the company, but maybe a few weeks of driving without constantly worrying about my safety score will help. We'll see.

Good choice. No point doing the safety score nonsense while the FSD rollouts are halted. As an fyi, At any point in the future, you can opt back in, and maintain a 98 or 99 for 100 miles, and you’ll get in.

 

[planetary]

This is incredibly frustrating.

 

[EVNow]

So I opted out. If FSD rollouts ever start again, I may opt back in. Then again, I may not.

Beta 11 might be a good time to get back to opt in. I think 10.x has hit kind of ceiling - we have only seen marginal improvements since we all got in to FSD Beta in October.

 

[sleepydoc]

Beta 11 might be a good time to get back to opt in. I think 10.x has hit kind of ceiling - we have only seen marginal improvements since we all got in to FSD Beta in October.

So what’s the difference going to be between beta 10.9 and beta 11? Typically a ‘dot’ release is minor tweaks and bug fixes whereas a whole number release involves a significant change in features and generally rewriting the code. Those wouldn’t seem to apply for FSD. Each successive release should give incremental improvements.