FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[Porkalletta]

I wonder how many Tesla owners actually want to use FSD to make money using Robotaxi? I suspect the percentage is extremely small. Maybe 1-3%. The overwhelming value of FSD has nothing to do with Robotaxi. Potential Robotaxi fleet owners have an interest but that's about it.

It would be interesting to have a survey of how many would put their car into robotaxi service or just use the system as a driver assist. I don't know how to do that here.

 

[Bladerskb]

So - not a regression in 11.4.x.

In a way it is not surprising that FSD is sensitive to road width. They have to be sure FSD won't brush the coming car or something stationary on the side. I've not seen MibilEye (Zeekr) even try unmarked roads (let alone narrow roads).

 

[SidetrackedSue]

It would be interesting to have a survey of how many would put their car into robotaxi service or just use the system as a driver assist. I don't know how to do that here.

My daughter's family is car-free. I'd happily send the car to her for when she needs to have one. I do a lot of driving to appointments in winter (our bus system is dodgy at best) and when it is an urgent, unplanned for appointment. But it is an hour round trip for me to go to her so she'd have more use of the car is it was truly L5 level.


That was not the reason my husband added FSD to our car though, he was just interested in the tech and the promise that it would allow us to live independently for much longer. For me, the plus was driving EV use forward even though it might not be the most logical choice for us. It works but with an awful lot of behaviour accommodations in the winter time and on road trips. I can't make a 'saving the environment' case, nor a financial one, because we drove a very energy efficient car before and don't drive a lot having already made the choice to downsize into an urban apartment so most household errands are on foot or by bus. In fact we use the car more now since it doesn't cost us for fuel and parking is usually less than the cost of two bus fares.

 

[EVNow]

Was there a section there that was unmarked ?

 

[EVNow]

This is unmarked?

Huh ?

 

[aronth5]

Are we still talking about our driving experiences on a release from early April?

Yes, because for whatever reason FSD is driving differently for many.

 

[EVNow]

Are we still talking about our driving experiences on a release from early April?

There are forums where people talk about driving experience on a "release" from last decade ...

 

[Bladerskb]

Huh ?

Its happening on roads that are marked aswell.

 

[EVNow]

Its happening on roads that are marked aswell.

Apparently - never had any issues my self - or so many others who post here. That is why its an edge case.

BTW, will your GM UltraCruise work on narrow unmarked roads ?

 

[sleepydoc]

Apparently - never had any issues my self - or so many others who post here. That is why its an edge case.

BTW, will your GM UltraCruise work on narrow unmarked roads ?

Is GM ultra cruise being designed or marketed for unmarked roads?

 

[Ramphex]

Yes. That, and a lot of other nonsense as you can see!

Oh…. I’m only here for the nonsense

There are forums where people talk about driving experience on a "release" from last decade ...

Dang, I got told!

 

[Bladerskb]

Apparently - never had any issues my self - or so many others who post here. That is why its an edge case.

BTW, will your GM UltraCruise work on narrow unmarked roads ?

Again where is the unmarked road in this video? And it happened around 10-20 times in this one video.
That's not an edge case at all.

 

[EVNow]

Again where is the unmarked road in this video? And it happened around 10-20 times in this one video.
That's not an edge case at all.

You don't even know what an edge case is.

Does FSD come to a stop on all marked roads (or for that matter all unmarked roads) when a car comes in the other direction ? NO.

So, it happens only in some (unknown) conditions. One condition where we know it happens is unmarked narrow roads. On marked roads we don't know when it happens. Since it doesn't happen all the time, its an edge case.

Got it ?

 

[Bladerskb]

You don't even know what an edge case is.

Does FSD come to a stop on all marked roads (or for that matter all unmarked roads) when a car comes in the other direction ? NO.

So, it happens only in some (unknown) conditions. One condition where we know it happens is unmarked narrow roads. On marked roads we don't know when it happens. Since it doesn't happen all the time, its an edge case.

Got it ?

No that's not what an edge case is. An edge case is something that is rarely encountered.
Plus Its not from the point of view of the Software. But the point of vieiw of what the software is trying to replace.
In this case humans. If it was in the point of view of the software then a system that can't go 1 miles without a safety disengagement would have edge cases everywhere.

But its in the point of view of human drivers. Driving on a two way narrow MARKED road is NOT an edge case. Its a daily routine for millions of people.
On the other hand, dodging a tire or a huge work bucket rolling down the freeway IS an edge case (Which I have only encountered twice in my lifetime). Some people have never encountered it. Ever.

 

[isolator]

You don't even know what an edge case is.

Does FSD come to a stop on all marked roads (or for that matter all unmarked roads) when a car comes in the other direction ? NO.

So, it happens only in some (unknown) conditions. One condition where we know it happens is unmarked narrow roads. On marked roads we don't know when it happens. Since it doesn't happen all the time, its an edge case.

Got it ?

I feel like people are pretty aggressive in this forum with each other. I find this odd given that we're a relatively small group of people with very similar interests on a forum focused on that shared interest.

 

[EVNow]

No that's not what an edge case is. An edge case is something that is rarely encountered.

Right - the slow down is happening in some scenarios that are rare - that is why we don't here it often enough.

Anyway, I have no idea why you are posting in this thread. If all you want to do is bash Tesla, you should go and do it in some other forum since you don't even have a Tesla.

I feel like people are pretty aggressive in this forum with each other. I find this odd given that we're a relatively small group of people with very similar interests on a forum focused on that shared interest.

See above. OP is basically a Tro** - he doesn't even have a Tesla. Just comes to this forum to sh*t post about Tesla.

 

[EVNow]

Back on topic - here is an issue that I find quite often.

When taking a protected right turn - with the oncoming traffic facing a flashing yellow light, FSD will start making a right turn. But if it sees an oncoming car starting to make a left turn it stops mid-way. Today had to disengage because of that.

Obviously the oncoming car expects us to make the right turn and then they would follow.

 

[Bladerskb]

Right - the slow down is happening in some scenarios that are rare - that is why we don't here it often enough.

Look, an edge case isn't about if a system can or can't handle a situation - it's all about how often that situation pops up. Picture it this way: you're driving down a narrow road with markings. That's a pretty everyday scenario, right? That's definitely not what we'd call an edge case because it's not a rare event.

Now if FSD Beta is having a good day, it navigates perfectly. If it's having an off day, well... you've seen the mishaps. But whether it's acing or flunking doesn't determine if a situation is an edge case. We can't say a situation is an edge case just because FSD Beta sometimes stumbles. It's the rarity of the situation that counts, not the performance of the system.

So yeah, you've kind of got the concept of edge cases flipped, bro. It's the rarity of the situation that makes it an edge case, not how the system handles it. Hope that clears things up a bit!

 

[tivoboy]

This is a Sllooowwwwww ROlllllllllllll ouutttttttttttt.. sort of doubt we’re even going to get this actual build.

 

[Sharps97]

3 version updates away maybe, 6 version updates definitely…