FSD Beta v11.x

EVNow · Apr 9, 2023

Speaking of videos .... couple of interesting ones here.

You can see how FSD looks like from behind. Noticeable only at stops (esp. empty intersections). FSD has trouble at empty intersections because it takes more time to ascertain there is noone around than it takes to figure out what cars are nearby.

Second video is a comparison between Waymo & Tesla on the same route in Pheonix.

Tesla ofcourse beats Waymo handily in terms of time. Waymo also seems to confuse the passenger with a u-turn at the end.

EVNow · Apr 9, 2023

Knightshade said:
I dunno about the 1x videos- but I've caught outright lies when he's posted his sped-up ones.... like a year+ before FSDb came out he posted one claiming his car took him to his favorite restaurant without intervention.... slow it down and it's super clear he was manually making turns and turning AP back on after each intersection. When this was called out in comments he said he meant no "unexpected" interventions and of course you have to do turns manually.

Pretty much gave up on anything he says about self driving at that point.

If you are going by what he posted 2+ years back ... you are missing out a lot.

He has made a lot of changes including even showing the brake/accelerator because people claimed he was pushing the accelerator when he was not. Also see his commentary in some of the videos - he calls out all the issues.

boonedocks · Apr 9, 2023

aronth5 said:
How can Omar report FSD is "dramatically better" when he's previously reported FSD is almost perfect

He’s such a sad shill I have blocked him on Twitter. Plus I don’t watch any FSDB videos since I get to experience it live almost 100 miles every weekday

kabin · Apr 9, 2023

EVNow said:
Speaking of videos .... couple of interesting ones here.

You can see how FSD looks like from behind. Noticeable only at stops (esp. empty intersections). FSD has trouble at empty intersections because it takes more time to ascertain there is noone around than it takes to figure out what cars are nearby.

Second video is a comparison between Waymo & Tesla on the same route in Pheonix.

Tesla ofcourse beats Waymo handily in terms of time. Waymo also seems to confuse the passenger with a u-turn at the end.

The Waymo's 3 point cul de sac turn was pretty cool.

Ramphex · Apr 9, 2023

boonedocks said:
He’s such a sad shill I have blocked him on Twitter. Plus I don’t watch any FSDB videos since I get to experience it live almost 100 miles every weekday

Yea I can’t remember the last time I watched an FSDb video. Seems like a waste of time considering how different everyone’s experience is in different places.

EVNow · Apr 9, 2023

kabin said:
The Waymo's 3 point cul de sac turn was pretty cool.

Though very confusing for the passenger ... and took a loong time ...

BTW, not very different from what most of the cars do with auto-parking.

ArchHamster · Apr 9, 2023

EVNow said:
Speaking of videos .... couple of interesting ones here.

You can see how FSD looks like from behind. Noticeable only at stops (esp. empty intersections). FSD has trouble at empty intersections because it takes more time to ascertain there is noone around than it takes to figure out what cars are nearby.

Second video is a comparison between Waymo & Tesla on the same route in Pheonix.

Tesla ofcourse beats Waymo handily in terms of time. Waymo also seems to confuse the passenger with a u-turn at the end.

This is the good stuff! For the first video, I love this format. Most of us who are into FSDb have experienced FSDb by this point ourselves and came to realize just how over-hyped FSDb was. For the vast majority of trips, zero intervention drives without being a nucance to other drivers was so unlikely that it seemed like the early FSDb videos which showed such drives were either lying or vastly under emphasized FSDb mistakes. Finally, with v11, I think a good portion of us, but not all, are in low intervention territory. Personally, I went from disengaging in almost every intersection with v10 too only a few in v11. Sometimes I even get a no intervention drive. However, what is harder to get a grasp on is how FSDb looks to other drivers. I think this is kind of an ultimate turing test for FSDb. Ideally other drivers, especially none tesla geeks, shouldn't be able to tell a FSD driven tesla from a manually driven tesla. When you are in the front seat of a tesla, all the little mistakes like wheel shakes and hesitations, feel massive. But to other drivers, I'm not sure they'd notice as much. I think the ultimate FSDb video would be pairing a front seat view with a follow car or 3rd person following drone view to get an idea of how bad the many 'soft' mistakes FSDb makes would appear to other drivers on the road.

The next video I love too. Even though waymo vs Tesla is a apples to oranges comparison (waymo can drive with no driver, Teslas cannot), comparing the fruits of the two different development methods is intriguing. It's interesting how waymo, despite being so restricted, still has significant wheel micro shakes (the kind which I think we saw heavily with v10) and how smoothly the Tesla operates. It almost feels like waymo's development style is an ultimate dead end (it's taking too long to make competent in too narrow conditions, with endless problems as it's area of operation is expanded. Going niche to generalized may be too costly and take too long to be practical), whereas Tesla could geofence Teslas to safe roads where it performs well and could outperform waymo in the robotaxi department by as soon as next year. With FSD drivers mapping out zero intervention drives which could, after review, be added to the robotaxi fleet, dynamically, overtime. However, I don't think Tesla is or is going to try seriously developing a robotaxi for some time and I'm quite happy with a super capable L2 system than a sparse and highly restricted true FSD robotaxi system. Maybe in another 5 years, waymos may reach my city but by that time FSDb may not only reach every city (Edit, I mean it already technically does, but I mean as released by default to all Teslas. As in it's the default version of the software instead of being sequestered to the awkward opt in system which it currently is) in the US but possibly other countries (I think there are rumors about expanding FSDb to China).

In any case, I hope both formats catch on for FSDb videos going forward as first person test drives increasingly lose value to everyone but those considering buying FSD or a Tesla for the first time.

Knightshade · Apr 9, 2023

EVNow said:
If you are going by what he posted 2+ years back ... you are missing out a lot.

Once I catch someone pretty clearly outright lying to deceive I'm not super interested in what they have to say- especially when we've got plenty of clearly more honest folks like Chuck Cook to listen to.

Rikster · Apr 9, 2023

Took my first drive on V11.3.6 this morning. Previously had 11.3.4. No noticeable changes in the updated version. Still having problems where the car pulls into a turn-only lane instead of remaining in the right lane to continue forward. Fairly smooth acceleration and deceleration with these versions, though, much less "slamming on the brakes" than I had in 10.69.

I'm satisfied with the ongoing improvements, and understand I have to closely supervise my car instead of texting or reading a book while driving.

I did drive for several miles without actually touching the yoke, by remaining perfectly still with my eyes on the road ahead. I like that a lot!

kabin · Apr 9, 2023

EVNow said:
Though very confusing for the passenger ... and took a loong time ...

BTW, not very different from what most of the cars do with auto-parking.

Yes, it's similar but I bet Waymo's 180deg direction change is a quantum leap in performance versus autopark's parking position adjustment of something less than 45deg.

kabin · Apr 9, 2023

Rikster said:
Took my first drive on V11.3.6 this morning. Previously had 11.3.4. No noticeable changes in the updated version. Still having problems where the car pulls into a turn-only lane instead of remaining in the right lane to continue forward. Fairly smooth acceleration and deceleration with these versions, though, much less "slamming on the brakes" than I had in 10.69.

I'm satisfied with the ongoing improvements, and understand I have to closely supervise my car instead of texting or reading a book while driving.

I did drive for several miles without actually touching the yoke, by remaining perfectly still with my eyes on the road ahead. I like that a lot!

I get the normal nags with 11.3.3 so maybe things changed with 3.4? My eyes and head are always scanning for what ifs so maybe I won't notice an improvement.

Rikster · Apr 9, 2023

kabin said:
I get the normal nags with 11.3.3 so maybe things changed with 3.4? My eyes and head are always scanning for what ifs so maybe I won't notice an improvement.

I never got 11.3.3, I went straight to 11.3.4. The nags were significantly reduced for me on 11.3.4, and now seem to be even further reduced on 11.3.6. If you take your eyes off the road to look at your phone or at the touch screen for too long, you do get a quick nag still, along with an admonishment to pay attention to the road. I'm okay with that, and it does feel like we're heading towards a time that we'll be able to drive hands-free so long as we are clearly paying attention to the road.

EVNow · Apr 9, 2023

Knightshade said:
Once I catch someone pretty clearly outright lying to deceive I'm not super interested in what they have to say- especially when we've got plenty of clearly more honest folks like Chuck Cook to listen to.

Up to you ... but I find his videos very interesting and informative. I want to see FSD driven on roads I'm (atleast somewhat) familiar with. Noone else seems to drive in SF.

Ramphex · Apr 9, 2023

EVNow said:
Up to you ... but I find his videos very interesting and informative. I want to see FSD driven on roads I'm (atleast somewhat) familiar with. Noone else seems to drive in SF.

Get the unrealistic experience of FSD’s better performance in California lol

rlsd · Apr 9, 2023

"Get the unrealistic experience of FSD’s better performance in California lol"

There are 2 parts of California: Northern and Southern. I want to see more testing in San Diego where most speed limits on the streets are from 40 mph and 55 mph.

Dennisis · Apr 9, 2023

kabin said:
My eyes and head are always scanning for what ifs so maybe I won't notice an improvement.

I'm always looking around too, doing that defensive driving thing - no nags at all. Had to try to get a nag, and only then when looking down for too long.

JulienW · Apr 9, 2023

On a short drive this morning had 2 turning lane failures. 1) Was turning left and got into the (2 left turn lanes) right left turn lane. When light changed it just plowed ahead straight and recalculated route. 2) Driving down one-way multilane needing to go straight and it got over in the far left lane that was turn only and even had a UPS truck double parked in it.

Dennisis · Apr 9, 2023

JulienW said:
On a short drive this morning had 2 turning lane failures. 1) Was turning left and got into the (2 left turn lanes) right left turn lane. When light changed it just plowed ahead straight and recalculated route. 2) Deriving down one-way multilane needing to go straight and it got over in the far left lane that was turn only and even had a UPS truck double parked in it.

See what you were missing?

ironwill96 · Apr 9, 2023

11.3.6 not very different for me versus 11.3.3. Drove it about 20 miles this morning and afternoon in a mix of city streets and highway.

Worked well for the most part but still slowed down rapidly on an on ramp for what I can only assume was because of shadows from the trees on the road?

I also had to intervene once because it had gotten over to the left lane and I was less than 0.3 miles from needing to turn right into a store and seemed to have no desire to move over with traffic present. Path planner needs to plan ahead better for upcoming turns. On city streets I’d expect it to start to get over a half mile before and on highways at the one mile mark.

JulienW · Apr 9, 2023

Dennisis said:
See what you were missing?

Not any more.

Also at a 4 way stop I "had" to use the accelerator. It may have been OK but way to hesitant with traffic all the way around.

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