FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[Mark II]

I have found a logical conclusion based on the majority of the last few pages which (like my post) have almost nothing to do with 11.x. Run the numbers and you will see it is a sound formula.

FSDb=FSDp-FSDj or FSDb=FSDj+FSDp

So I have determined that 11.4 is actually a FSD Beta product and NOT FSD Junk or FSD Perfect.

What you have defined there is an equation with an imaginary number. So to simplify:
FSDb = FSDp + iFSDj

where i^2 = -1

Which actually makes a lot of sense. Some people imagine FSDb to be better than others

 

[JulienW]

AI DRIVR driving in narrow hilly streets. (some actual 11.x content)

 

[FloridaJohn]

Weird...since he claimed he was "looking into it" almost 2.5 years ago too.

Guess he doesn't have much pull with the company or something.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1351016753372016647

They are both the same tweet from 2.5 years ago.

 

[Knightshade]

They are both the same tweet from 2.5 years ago.

Elons tweet is the same from 2021.

The one citing a Tesla employee saying FSD is worth $0.00 is from 2023. (April 26 2023 specifically is the date on the email from the Tesla employee saying that).

So Elon "looking into it" 2.5 years ago appears to have not actually resolved the thing Elons said he'd fix.

 

[FloridaJohn]

Elons tweet is the same from 2021.

The one citing a Tesla employee saying FSD is worth $0.00 is from 2023. (April 26 2023 specifically is the date on the email from the Tesla employee saying that).

So Elon "looking into it" 2.5 years ago appears to have not actually resolved the thing Elons said he'd fix.

Oh, OK. I misunderstood what your point was.

 

[SSDTester#1]

I’m surprised more companies haven’t started to sell “capabilities” after seeing this debacle. I mean there’s clearly a huge market of people who will buy something for $6,000-$15,000 with no actual set deadline and minimal progress over several years.

Oh and no access to the beta for the first couple of years after the payment is received.

Robaccia

 

[jebinc]

I’m surprised more companies haven’t started to sell “capabilities” after seeing this debacle. I mean there’s clearly a huge market of people who will buy something for $6,000-$15,000 with no actual set deadline and minimal progress over several years.

Oh and no access to the beta for the first couple of years after the payment is received.

Robaccia

You missed on of the Charlatan’s plays… How about the millions of $100 bill loans for four years, interest free play?! . Cybertruck reservation fee, for example….

 

[SSDTester#1]

You missed on of the Charlatan’s plays… How about the millions of $100 bill loans for four years, interest free play?! . Cybertruck reservation fee, for example….

The best part is he always gets away with it. Evil or genius?

 

[EVNow]

I’m surprised more companies haven’t started to sell “capabilities” after seeing this debacle. I mean there’s clearly a huge market of people who will buy something for $6,000-$15,000 with no actual set deadline and minimal progress over several years.

Oh and no access to the beta for the first couple of years after the payment is received.

Robaccia

You obviously don't follow what new EV companies are doing.

Getting back to 11.x - Lots of drives yesterday, mostly ok. But on one drive lots of lane selection issues (slow traffic blocking earth movers !).

For me now the top two issues are Roundabouts and planning / lane selection. Fix those and my disengagement rate will go down 5x.

 

[SSDTester#1]

You obviously don't follow what new EV companies are doing.

I meant in general, not EV only. But do tell as I do not follow any other EV companies. Anyone else out there selling snake oil?

 

[EVNow]

I meant in general, not EV only. But do tell as I do not follow any other EV companies. Anyone else out there selling snake oil?

I had looked up some time back ...

Various parts of ADAS ? Nope - they are all bundled. Not just that you may have to buy a different trim level altogether ...

See what Lucid/Rivian want to do. They sell their unspecified "semi-autonomous" feature for $9k, to be delivered at an unspecified future date.

 

[EVNow]

For me now the top two issues are Roundabouts and planning / lane selection. Fix those and my disengagement rate will go down 5x.

One more thing I noticed - hadn't really seen this in a long time.

On very narrow unmarked roads, FSD will stop when there is an oncoming vehicle (reminds me of what Chuck videos show). Not a high priority for me - but people driving in neighborhoods with very narrow unmarked streets would want this worked on. Probably similar to what @WilliamG posted some time back - probably worse with the wider S/X.

 

[totoro722]

When I bought my MX in 2020, I paid what I thought was a lot for a product that was not developed yet; I wanted to be part of its growth and see what happened. Since then I have experienced a lot of versions of FSD that were interesting but unusable. Recently on v11 I have found I can drive 50 miles each way to work in SoCal with few disengagements, and those mostly for lane changes in heavy traffic. Now I am back in Oregon, and find I can turn on FSDb 11.3.6 and drive 50 or more miles on Hwy 101 through towns, windy roads, etc. with no disengagements and very rare interventions. Last year this was impossible as there were numerous places along my routes that would consistently fail in a predictable way. Today all of those failure places no longer cause a problem for FSD. I find that I have now pretty close to what I was hoping for when I ponied up three years ago. The idea of roboTaxi has no appeal for me, but this is good. It is pretty close to set it and forget it. I understand some here have different experiences, but on this first gen Model X FSD is working well

 

[SSDTester#1]

I had looked up some time back ...

Link me to the info. I can’t find anything but Rivian Driver+ for Rivian, which is apparently included with every car.

 

[EVNow]

Link me to the info. I can’t find anything but Rivian Driver+ for Rivian, which is apparently included with every car.

Looks like Rivian has removed it. Lucid still sells DreamDrive Pro for 10k.

 

[SSDTester#1]

Looks like Rivian has removed it. Lucid still sells DreamDrive Pro for 10k.

What a stupid name, I’ll have to check it out though haha

 

[SSDTester#1]

Checked it out, interesting that DreamDrive Pro is included with flagship models and lower end models come with DreamDrive and Pro is available as an OTA update.

Oh and no CEO spewing false timelines lol

 

[Dennisis]

Checked it out, interesting that DreamDrive Pro is included with flagship models and lower end models come with DreamDrive and Pro is available as an OTA update.

Oh and no CEO spewing false timelines lol

Yes, and before long no customers either. Not much to hang your hat on there....

 

[SSDTester#1]

Yes, and before long no customers either. Not much to hang your hat on there....

I think Lucid cars are hideous. I would consider Rivian if I needed a truck

 

[Twiglett]

One more thing I noticed - hadn't really seen this in a long time.

On very narrow unmarked roads, FSD will stop when there is an oncoming vehicle (reminds me of what Chuck videos show). Not a high priority for me - but people driving in neighborhoods with very narrow unmarked streets would want this worked on. Probably similar to what @WilliamG posted some time back - probably worse with the wider S/X.

Have seen this many times with 11.3.6 as most of the roads in neighborhoods around here are unmarked.
In a similar vein, when the road has a sharp turn (usually right), but not a junction. The car comes to a full and complete stop and signals before taking a 10.8-esque turn with lots of steering wheel spinning and uncertainty.