FSD rewrite will go out on Oct 20 to limited beta

[Cheburashka]

Lets summarize...
In this tweet, @verygreen is saying/implying that Tesla would be embarrassed and thus has to "save face" by hiding info of how this particular radar sees the world... because it resembles how lidar sees the world..


Now, for the same summary in pictures
View attachment 601414
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Exactly. But the pic you posted is 360 lidar, not forward facing lidar.

Elon said that Lidar is a crutch and that the extra data from Lidar isn't needed, since autonomy can be achieved with the current hardware package. In the meantime, Tesla is apparently working on integrating higher resolution data, presumably because they need the higher res data to achieve FSD. What am I missing?

 

[Daniel in SD]

Elon explained why LIDAR is "stupid" for FSD during autonomy day. This would be a mischaracterization per Elon. Radar is occlusion penetrating vs lidar. So lidar isn't "basically just better radar."

True, RADAR does have that advantage for sure but I doubt it comes close to offsetting the lower resolution. Here's a video of LIDAR in the rain. I suspect that even in the rain it provides higher resolution than RADAR.

 

[mikes_fsd]

What am I missing?

What you're missing is that green would not have mistaken or conflate lidar output with a radar point cloud.

His statement makes no sense.

 

[andrewFW]

This is not directed at anyone in particular. I enjoy reading this thread and all the different opinions and viewpoints. It is reading the different viewpoints that help me form my own. Skepticism and having a high bar for evidence of a claim is essential to scientific reasoning, and it is not the same as being negative. I hope these aren't controversial statements. Someone with concerns should not detract from your enjoyment or excitement. I think we're all excited about whatever the future brings and looking forward to whatever progress is made. This is not in conflict with wanting more confidence in solutions. Being a fan of the technology should not limit you to only being excited about the progress of company A or company B. (Or company T or Company W) Whoever gets it right, we all win.

 

[Daniel in SD]

What you're missing is that the green would not have mistaken or conflate lidar output with a radar point cloud.

His statement makes no sense.

What's the difference between a LIDAR point cloud and a RADAR point cloud?
Both are generated by transmitting and receiving pulses of electromagnetic radiation.

 

[Eno Deb]

How does the point cloud from greens post "resemble" the output from lidar (as shown above)?

He is a sharp dude, I know he would not confuse output form Lidar with Radar point clouds... (unless he has an ulterior motive... )

What are you talking about? I never said that he "confused output form Lidar with Radar".

 

[mikes_fsd]

What are you talking about? I never said that he "confused output form Lidar with Radar".

That's why I said "he", as in green, would not confuse lidar output with radar point cloud.

 

[mikes_fsd]

What's the difference between a LIDAR point cloud and a RADAR point cloud?
Both are generated by transmitting and receiving pulses of electromagnetic radiation.

If you can't tell the difference between the two images, then there is not much to discuss.

 

[P3dStealth]

Tesla service gave me full self driving for free yesterday. I dropped my model 3 off because it's built like a knockoff power wheel.

A car arrived within 15mins to take me home. Very minimal input from me. All I had to do was tell the guy where to stop when he got to my house.

No lidar or radar. Not even sure he had cruise control.

 

[Eno Deb]

Question then becomes- do you NEED that to get to at least L4?

That is the big question. I have no doubt that radar improves reliability (since it can easily recognize obstacles that cameras may miss due to low contrast or a fault in the neural net, and provides some redundancy). Whether cheap cameras alone can be made reliable enough is an open question.

 

[Daniel in SD]

If you can't tell the difference between the two images, then there is not much to discuss.

View attachment 601451

That could just be super high resolution synthetic aperture RADAR!

 

[Eno Deb]

That's why I said "he", as in green, would not confuse lidar output with radar point cloud.

I still have no idea what you are talking about. A high-res radar produces a point cloud, i.e. a set of points in a 3-dimensional space. So does lidar. You seem to think that they are fundamentally different because there are different visualizations and resolutions.

 

[diplomat33]

Smart Summon the new FSD Beta.

 

[willow_hiller]

Smart Summon the new FSD Beta.

Not too many details, but appears to be keeping to the right side of the road. That's definitely new behavior.

 

[Cheburashka]

I still have no idea what you are talking about. A high-res radar produces a point cloud, i.e. a set of points in a 3-dimensional space. So does lidar. You seem to think that they are fundamentally different because there are different visualizations and resolutions.

Yeah exactly. That's how I see it as well. High res radar is a slightly different approach to provide you more or less the same data as a lidar would. Resolution depends on the model, and visualization depends on many factors including software used to interpret and display the data.

 

[hh83917]

Smart Summon the new FSD Beta.

Not sure it's faster than the current version, but at least it's staying on the right side of the road.

 

[Cheburashka]

Not sure it's faster than the current version, but at least it's staying on the right side of the road.

It seems slower than the current version but it's definitely a huge improvement. I think that with this version at least it won't crash into curbs, which is a major plus.

 

[brkaus]

And L3 cars will still get in accidents. Hopefully not their fault, but there are things that just happen.

Not sure it's faster than the current version, but at least it's staying on the right side of the road.

that might end up making it even slower. Has to take the “long path”.


Kinda funny. I totally forgot my car has smart summon. Past the first week I tried it frequently.

 

[DDotJ]

Video of FSD going through a roundabout:

Exiting the roundabout looked a little sketchy but it can navigate a roundabout.

 

[verygreen]

If not, please explain the "loss of face" that Tesla is supposedly trying to suppress data.

that sure is a widely misunderstood comment, sigh.

What I mean is Tesla cannot include a Lidar sensor without at least some loss of face.