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FSD Timeline Promises (summary)
- Thread starter t3sl4drvr
- Start date
It was on the top shelf.. I guess I put it there by mistake....Oh my god
Tam
Well-Known Member
Level 4 Waymo still has partial instrument clusters on 2 separate screens for passengers in the back.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Well, given the other stuff we know is untrue in the book we can't be sure that's true either....
That said- I'm with you on the HUD.
I thought for years I'd LOVE to have one, then when I test drove a few cars that had em I hated em and they gave me a headache.
Not everyone lives on Tesla social media. I only started reading Tesla forums since I bought my car.
I bought my Tesla without knowing much about Elon Musk. What convinced me to get FSD was the showroom representative (service advisor) who claimed (what the website also said) that there will be full city self driving within the year.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Can't speak for the service advisor, but what the website claims is there'll be level 2 (so NOT autonomous- human is driving assisted by the computer) city driving this year
Exactly! It said the same last year. And I assume before that and before that.
What I'd be fine with is a publicly released and safer version of what is now the FSD beta.
When I bought my car Elon Musk and the web site were saying that with FSD your car would drive itself with nobody in it, or with just the kids in it, or with robotaxi passengers in it. They backed off that later to what amounted to level 2. But back then, without overt reference to the SAE levels, they were promising what effectively amounted to Level 5 autonomy.
However, they also said that this was pending the completion of the software (an overt admission that the software did not actually exist) and that my car (HW2.5) had all the necessary hardware for full (no driver needed) autonomy covering the entire United States. And they were making the same promise (including "your car has all the needed software") before that, with regard to HW2 cars.
Tesla took a of of people for suckers. To their credit they upgraded HW2 and HW2.5 cars to the HW3 computer at no charge for people who had paid for FSD. But people who were effectively promised Level 5 operation and the ability to earn some money with their cars as robotaxis are still waiting, and probably will never get anything better than Level 2 during the expected service life of their cars. I think they have a legitimate complaint. I don't understand why they let themselves be suckered into it. But their complaint is legitimate.
I didn't pay for FSD because I didn't believe it would happen before I'd be ready to trade up to a newer model. So I am 100% satisfied, and even delighted with my Model 3. I bought EAP because that was real and I was able to drive a car that had it before I got mine. And it has turned out to be much better than I ever anticipated.
Tesla still calls my EAP "BETA." This is more than three years after I got the car, and more years than that since they introduced AP, and it's still beta software. Can anybody believe that from the first test (which hasn't happened yet) of a true driverless Tesla, to general availability to customers, will be less than a few years? With Level 2 we are responsible. Before Tesla takes responsibility for telling you that you can send your car off by itself to pick up the kids, they will need years of verification studies, either small-scale like Waymo is doing in Chandler, or by keeping the cars level 2.
However, they also said that this was pending the completion of the software (an overt admission that the software did not actually exist) and that my car (HW2.5) had all the necessary hardware for full (no driver needed) autonomy covering the entire United States. And they were making the same promise (including "your car has all the needed software") before that, with regard to HW2 cars.
Tesla took a of of people for suckers. To their credit they upgraded HW2 and HW2.5 cars to the HW3 computer at no charge for people who had paid for FSD. But people who were effectively promised Level 5 operation and the ability to earn some money with their cars as robotaxis are still waiting, and probably will never get anything better than Level 2 during the expected service life of their cars. I think they have a legitimate complaint. I don't understand why they let themselves be suckered into it. But their complaint is legitimate.
I didn't pay for FSD because I didn't believe it would happen before I'd be ready to trade up to a newer model. So I am 100% satisfied, and even delighted with my Model 3. I bought EAP because that was real and I was able to drive a car that had it before I got mine. And it has turned out to be much better than I ever anticipated.
Tesla still calls my EAP "BETA." This is more than three years after I got the car, and more years than that since they introduced AP, and it's still beta software. Can anybody believe that from the first test (which hasn't happened yet) of a true driverless Tesla, to general availability to customers, will be less than a few years? With Level 2 we are responsible. Before Tesla takes responsibility for telling you that you can send your car off by itself to pick up the kids, they will need years of verification studies, either small-scale like Waymo is doing in Chandler, or by keeping the cars level 2.
From the looks of it they still do treat people like suckers. Every week we see a new user posting somewhere on TMC surprised that some aspect of FSD isn't working very well. After a couple of replies they get schooled that it's not that reliable and shouldn't really be used, "what were you thinking". I too would have assumed that paying $200/month or $10k for something would get some decent functionality, but that isn't really the case. Even the diehard fans eventually admit that only "some" of it works, but you are buying into a future of wonders, or something. Most people do not pay for what might be.
It's human nature to an extent. A sufficiently charismatic person can convince people of some pretty profoundly irrational nonsense if their timing is right and someone is in the right state of mind. Look at cult/religion (same thing, but the latter gets tax breaks) survivors, people who support genocides by dictators until a certain point, etc. There's often a lot of "holy f- I don't know what I was thinking, he's obviously crazy." when you see those folks interviewed and shown the stuff they fell for.
sperkin
Active Member
I was just thinking back in 2020 during Thanksgiving I was worried to get FSD beta because I would definitely use it on my trip to Mammoth (which would be dangerous). Now I have the same worry again. If FSD doesn't get wide releases soon, Tesla should hold off until after the winter season. March 2022 would be a better time to go wider release.
One of the big arguments we hear from fans is that by buying FSD now, they are getting it much cheaper than it will be when it is actually available. The problem is that if you pay your $10K the "FSD" does not stay with you when you sell or trade or junk your car. An awful lot of people are going to get nothing better than some kind-of-sort-of-almost-work functions at Level 2 before their cars reach the end of their useful life. Tesla got $10K (times a lot of people) and might not deliver anything useful in return.
Another point is that buying FSD you're kind of betting that Tesla will be the first to provide a true driverless car to customers. I want Tesla to be the first because I love my car. But, as much as I hate GM and Ford, if one of them brings out the first driverless car for sale to the public, (and if it's electric -- gotta be electric!) I will be sorely tempted to say, "Thanks, Tesla, love your cars but I want driverless now."
I used to travel a lot. I never bought a time-share because I didn't want to be locked in to one company. I won't buy FSD until it exists because I want to be able to buy from whoever offers to sell me an FSD car first. Maybe vision-only will pan out, but I'm not betting on it. I'm keeping my options open.
Another point is that buying FSD you're kind of betting that Tesla will be the first to provide a true driverless car to customers. I want Tesla to be the first because I love my car. But, as much as I hate GM and Ford, if one of them brings out the first driverless car for sale to the public, (and if it's electric -- gotta be electric!) I will be sorely tempted to say, "Thanks, Tesla, love your cars but I want driverless now."
I used to travel a lot. I never bought a time-share because I didn't want to be locked in to one company. I won't buy FSD until it exists because I want to be able to buy from whoever offers to sell me an FSD car first. Maybe vision-only will pan out, but I'm not betting on it. I'm keeping my options open.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
GM and Ford ain't developing squat though.
They're both using Mobileye systems.
In some cases still using the system that Tesla did for AP1.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
GM owns Cruise who's going to deploy robotaxis any day now (for the last couple years. haha.) and they claim that the Origin will cost as much as a regular SUV. Theoretically they could make a consumer version someday. Very unlikely any time soon though.
If Mobileye ever gets their driverless software working it would have to be licensed to another manufacturer unless you think they're going to start making cars.
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