FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[Mardak]

If navigation is heading into a construction zone, disengage and drive manually until you're past the construction zone, then re-engage.

At least I appreciate people exploring and sharing the limits and capabilities of 12.x as long as it's safe and not impacting others. Interesting behavior here that it eventually turned left from the straight lane but better if it had just gotten into the left turn lane to begin with. 12.2.1 also seems to understand that people U-turn when encountering road closed:

Although here it also approached too quickly and didn't swing to the right enough to complete the U-turn and could not do a 3-point turn without the ability to reverse.

 

[rlsd]

How can this be explained?

Camera perception is not correct and does not match map information?
Or camera perception is correct but control execution is out of sync with map information?

 

[Porkalletta]

When you see it's not going to make the exit, or it feels reasonably like it's not going to make it, just disengage. Otherwise the issue doesn't get to Tesla and they don't know about--and that way you don't get as pissed because you don't miss your exit!

I actually went into the exit ramp to where it was suppose to go and then pulled left at the last second to get back on the highway.

 

[JulienW]

I actually went into the exit ramp to where it was suppose to go and then pulled left at the last second to get back on the highway.

This would be the V11 stack and might even be some confusing if it switched stacks.

 

[powertoold]

This would be the V11 stack and might even be some confusing if it switched stacks.

Yea, there was likely some stack switching once it was on the exit ramp

 

[Porkalletta]

This would be the V11 stack and might even be some confusing if it switched stacks.

I never had this problem in the V11 stack so confusion might be the issue. Also on city streets it sometimes does not follow the map and at the last split second makes jerky, risky maneuvers going a different way. I have to be much more alert on V12 than V11. That being said, all in all, it seems safer somehow when following the map and the next update will hopefully work out these quirks.

 

[sleepydoc]

I hope you're being sarcastic there. If you have no interior camera, it's incredibly easy to get a strike. Just drive through about two miles of inactive construction zones with both hands on the wheel, and pay attention to the road like you're supposed to instead of noticing the flashing on your dashboard until it starts beeping at you, then do that two or three more times close enough together before leaving the construction zone. Boom. Instant strike.

That's not to say that this particular person wasn't incredibly inattentive or negligent, though.

I got a strike 2 days ago (v11). Not sure what triggered it - I was driving on the highway like I normally do, noticed the screen glowing blue and right as I tugged the steering wheel it gave me the Steering Wheel of Death. (No beeps prior to doing so.)

It had given me a couple ‘pay attention to the road’ warnings earlier in the trip and I remember being a bit surprised by them because they didn’t seem appropriate but I just dismissed them and kept driving. (On one of them I was looking off to the side at a turn, checking for traffic.) Maybe the ‘pat attention to the road’ warnings accumulate? It still doesn’t make sense because I was looking straight ahead for the last one that got me the strike.

 

[JulienW]

I never had this problem in the V11 stack so confusion might be the issue. Also on city streets it sometimes does not follow the map and at the last split second makes jerky, risky maneuvers going a different way. I have to be much more alert on V12 than V11. That being said, all in all, it seems safer somehow when following the map and the next update will hopefully work out these quirks.

I quick clarification. V12 dos NOT work on the highway yet. When you get on the highway V12 switches to V11. So while you are driving on the highway you ARE on V11.

It is possible as you exited it switched from V11 to V12 and this confused V12.

 

[JB47394]

So, what would it look like if Tesla thinks they can make it over the hump? Releases would slow down, so they really can fix the last dozen bugs. And that's where we may be at the moment.

I think you should prepare to be disappointed. Nobody knows how to do this, so expecting anything going forward is a fool's errand. They could run into resource problems, or find a never ending cycle of training that produces side effects that requires training that produces side effects, etc. That may be what they've just encountered, and they're taking some time to understand more of what they've gotten into.

That, or they're forestalling a NHTSA call by appearing responsible about the safety of their system because somebody operating V12 didn't press the brake pedal. We're definitely still testing software.

Edit: Here's Dirty Tesla's latest video, which is topical:

 

[PianoAl]

Do you think "issues with the auto-speed modulation" refers to the speed stuttering or constant slowdowns and speedups that I and others have reported? If so, I'm glad it's a priority.

From Dirty Tesla video:

 

[powertoold]

The weird thing about the 12.2.1 rollout is: if it wasn't ready for the OGs, why roll it out?

I think Dirty Tesla has HW4, they should have rolled it out to him as well, if they included Omar and AIDRVR

 

[JulienW]

The weird thing about the 12.2.1 rollout is: if it wasn't ready for the OGs, why roll it out?

I think Dirty Tesla has HW4, they should have rolled it out to him as well, if they included Omar and AIDRVR

[rant] I bitc$ed about this before and will again. I think Tesla F'up by sending it out to random people. They should have followed the tried and tested same method of Influencers first and then Early Access. That would be a LOT safer and probably provided better feedback results.

This is an ALL NEW system so why take a foolish chance by sending it to random and new people who have little to no experience with FSD?

As these newbies test V12 FSD and allow it crash because they are less experienced at intervening and they will be quick to make an NHTSA complaint. This may bite us all in the a$$.

 

[Mardak]

The weird thing about the 12.2.1 rollout is: if it wasn't ready for the OGs, why roll it out?

There's some things that only can really be tested with 12.x actively making control decisions, and TeslaFi numbers show of their 65 installed, 62 report a region of California with the other 3 in Nevada/Oregon adjacent to California. We've gotten reports here of people from outside of those states, but it seems like they might be in the 1% of the 1% that even got 12.2.1.

It is odd given how large California is, there's such a variety of city, urban, suburban, rural, etc. that are not that different from other states, but perhaps that 1% of 1% is to evaluate whether that's actually true and does 12.x behave good enough outside of California-ish areas? A random selection even within California is probably a better evaluation metric of how it might behave if rolled out to the rest of California as employee testers would be biased given their experience. Then again, the limited random rollout for such a new and different behavior also leads to people doing things they wouldn't otherwise have done with a regular FSD Beta release.

 

[OxBrew]

If navigation is heading into a construction zone, disengage and drive manually until you're past the construction zone, then re-engage. Why is this such a hard concept for people to get?

Did every user get specific training in this? Is there a test to prove they grasped that part? Where in the manual does it say you have to do that?

Clicking a box on a wall of noise boiler plate disclaimer does not count. No one reads those (except me a a couple other nerds around here).

 

[kabin]

Here is the description provided for the V12 release delays by Tesla Scope:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1764599100752933238

Apparently that seemingly insignificant parking lot crash last week was partly to blame.

 

[kabin]

If navigation is heading into a construction zone, disengage and drive manually until you're past the construction zone, then re-engage. Why is this such a hard concept for people to get?

For sure. But in this case the driver knew the scenario in advance and was testing v12's response.

 

[Kablooie]

I don’t seem to get any nags in slow traffic, there must be a certain speed cap where nags start

In slow traffic and straight roads the nags are less frequent. They go up when there are more potential decisions to make.

 

[PianoAl]

>sending it out to random people

My hypothesis is that I got it because I report a lot of issues (scroll wheel press after disengagement).

Is there anyone here who rarely makes bug reports yet got V12?

 

[uscbucsfan]

>sending it out to random people

My hypothesis is that I got it because I report a lot of issues (scroll wheel press after disengagement).

Is there anyone here who rarely makes bug reports yet got V12?

There was someone in a FB group that just got FSD (in December) and rarely used it. I'm sure there was some method to the madness, but like most things, Tesla isn't going to say.

 

[Mardak]

Sorry for sharing the same video so many times, but it's nearly 1.5 hours long with various interesting parts including what seems like a SoC/node crash without aborting (58:15) for "system error" message:

I've previously had one node restart with 11.x resulting in big red take over immediately and visualizations only showed lanes/road edges but no moving objects, which seems to match up with AI Day 2022 example scheduling of neural networks split between SoC-A and SoC-B. The interesting part here is end-to-end continued to make this turn and subsequently went around a truck without any visualizations shown, so that seems to suggest 12.x neural networks are completely on one SoC while 11.x's are running independently on the other SoC. Additionally, notice the repeater camera view is all black potentially because it's running on the node that crashed. I would guess no blue path because it doesn't have a base road environment from 11.x to draw in.

So it seems much more likely that 11.x predictions don't feed into 12.x's control behavior?