FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[DavidPetr.]

Can someone with 12.3 confirm whether TACC is gone or still available?

 

[MP3Mike]

Can someone with 12.3 confirm whether TACC is gone or still available?

TACC is still there, but only if you disable FSDb and go with standard AP or NOA. (FSDb v12 requires the use of the single-pull activation method.)

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Glancing at the teslafi firmware page, I'm thinking that watching them for the 'big wave' may not be useful.

It is showing that over 60% of both all the cars they are tracking and the subset of HW3 cars have updated to the 2024.x.x update stream. So that limits the number of people who will be able to update to V12.x. until there is a new release.

I don't know if the other firmware tracking company offers different updating stats by their customers.

 

[RowdyMY]

Would you say that this behaves like the annoying class of drivers who are going slower, but then wake up and compete with you when you try to pass them? This would definitely be the wrong behavior.

There's a fine line between keeping up with traffic on the one hand, and reactively getting in the way on the other hand. Each driver can have their own slightly different speed preference and driving style. That's okay and others will adapt by passing or following as appropriate. But the ones who are too dense to get out of the way, or who speed up even a little when you try to pass, are the scourge of the road . I hope v12 isn't doing those things! And definitely if this is the case, it should get fixed before they deploy it on the freeways.

(I turned off the Auto speed offset last night with no traffic around, so I didn't get to experience its interaction with afternoon traffic today.)

Scourge of the road type of speed matching.

I'll try auto speed offset off today and see how it goes. My drive is a mix of limited access and "city streets" state highway.

 

[DavidPetr.]

TACC is still there, but only if you disable FSDb and go with standard AP or NOA. (FSDb v12 requires the use of the single-pull activation method.)

Thanks, that's disappointing! I guess I will not be installing 12.3 any time soon.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Biggest thing for me so far was the wrong lane selection above and then stopping too far behind stop lines today and then going without creeping (I know most would celebrate but it was uncomfortable).

Depends on how far back it was. As long as it was over the traffic light triggers in the lane, that would make me very happy.

If it was too far back to trigger a light change (especially in a protected left turn lane), that would be a fail.

Driving schools tell you to stay one car length back from the stop line to stop yourself from being pushed into the intersection if you are rear-ended, and also to reduce the chance of you being hit by a spinning car if there's an accident in the intersection while you are sitting there. So, at least in my city, I note the trigger dots are well back in the lane so I can follow defensive driving practices without missing out on triggering a light. (The dots are there to tell motorbikes and cyclists where to wait to trigger the light.)

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Thanks, that's disappointing! I guess I will not be installing 12.3 any time soon.

Don't forget you can set up two driver profiles, one without FSDb enabled, so you can switch between the two while driving.

 

[aronth5]

Driving schools tell you to stay one car length back from the stop line to stop yourself from being pushed into the intersection if you are rear-ended, and also to reduce the chance of you being hit by a spinning car if there's an accident in the intersection while you are sitting there. So, at least in my city, I note the trigger dots are well back in the lane so I can follow defensive driving practices without missing out on triggering a light. (The dots are there to tell motorbikes and cyclists where to wait to trigger the light.)

Interesting. When my kids had driving school recently their instructor said this advise is old school and they no longer advise staying that far back. Their reasoning was the added safety feature of being closer to the edge of the road for improved visibility is far greater than the extremely rare chance you will be rear ended enough to push you thru the intersection or get hit by a spinning car. Frankly I've ignored the above advice for over 50 years for that exact same reasoning. The better I can see and the quicker I can get turned and going forward is much safer IMO.

 

[PianoAl]

Sorry to post this video multiple times, but on another thread, Henderrj noticed something interesting: It's possible the car is trying to drive around the shadow on the road! Do you think that's possible?

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Interesting. When my kids had driving school recently their instructor said this advise is old school and they no longer advise staying that far back. Their reasoning was the added safety feature of being closer to the edge of the road for improved visibility is far greater than the extremely rare chance you will be rear ended enough to push you thru the intersection or get hit by a spinning car. Frankly I've ignored the above advice for over 50 years for that exact same reasoning. The better I can see and the quicker I can get turned and going forward is much safer IMO.

I agree that automatic braking systems probably reduce the need to stay back because of a rear-ending but around here intersection collisions seem to be on the rise since the pandemic (I suspect a combination of two factors - more new drivers because the transit system here has been decimated, and backlog of testing lowered standards to pass the road test.) If I'm sitting at a red light, I don't need have a clear view until a second or two before the light will change, but I'm not into jackrabbit starts anyway so pull out slowly in case there's a red-light runner (or a tesla on FSDb) is coming in the other direction.

 

[PianoAl]

The only way I have found to get 12.3 to drive faster is to use the accelerator. Once you speed it up, it seems to stick for a while.

More and more testers are noticing this, and I'm sure it will be fixed soon. Also, it's a major safety issue, because the car will not slow down for a curve.

Here's a video that demonstrates it:

Note that if there is a car in front of you, this problem doesn't exist.

 

[aronth5]

I agree that automatic braking systems probably reduce the need to stay back because of a rear-ending but around here intersection collisions seem to be on the rise since the pandemic (I suspect a combination of two factors - more new drivers because the transit system here has been decimated, and backlog of testing lowered standards to pass the road test.) If I'm sitting at a red light, I don't need have a clear view until a second or two before the light will change, but I'm not into jackrabbit starts anyway so pull out slowly in case there's a red-light runner (or a tesla on FSDb) is coming in the other direction.

I should have been clearer. I was mostly referring to Stop sign intersections. And I rarely do jackrabbit starts unless it's needed to avoid cars coming up to me at obstructed view intersections which I have a lot of. Staying too far back is just not as safe. For traffic lights just stop at the line.

 

[PianoAl]

Obviously. My question was if you were a passenger would you notice the speed issues you mentioned? It's not unreasonable to think that most of use who adjust speeds would care less it we weren't driving. Especially if we were in the back seat. I adjust speeds frequently and I'm beginning to wonder whether it's because I want FSD to drive just like I do when maybe that's not so important. The majority of V12 negative feedback seems to be related to speed so just wondering.

The answer is yes. If the speed limit is 55 mph and the car is driving at 50 with frequent slowdowns to 39, with no reason, I would notice. I would lean into the front seat and say, "WTH, car?"

 

[kabin]

Looks like it’s still not going wide yet, just give us a timeline Tesla

I wouldn't be surprised if they put the kabash on v12.3 given too many curb strikes and crossing yellow lines on tight mountain roads.

 

[lzolman]

Clearly I did something wrong in my previous life and it's payback time living here

I grew up in Hollywood, and couldn't wait to move as far away from my parents as I could go and still be in the same country, hence I live near Boston. (It was also nice to be able to breathe, as I got out of L.A. in '76 and probably already had some permanent damage to my lungs...)

 

[Supcom]

I wouldn't be surprised if they put the kabash on v12.3 given too many curb strikes and crossing yellow lines on tight mountain roads.

I think that this is a real possibility.

 

[aronth5]

I think that this is a real possibility.

Quiet. The stock is up 8.68 points now.

 

[tivoboy]

From my quick test, I turned off AUTO set speed and scrolled up to 85mph, and 12.3 kept going the speed it wanted to go. This is quite a departure from 11.x behavior where adjusting the set speed basically allowed you to control how fast or slow FSD Beta would go. Another downside of AUTO is that it seems to replace the highway 11.x customized offset percentage, so practically it seems like if you want an offset over the speed limit, might as well use the custom offset as 12.x will tend to go slower than that anyway and you still keep the old behavior on highways. Additionally, if you do want to go slower, non-AUTO allows for that while with AUTO requires braking disengagement.

Interesting.. at first I had AUTO set speed off, and the scroll wheel wouldn’t do ANYTHING above the speed that it though was posted.. after I changed the setting, it still wouldn’t go above and only indicated MAX. Is there more than one setting for this?

 

[kabin]

Sorry to post this video multiple times, but on another thread, Henderrj noticed something interesting: It's possible the car is trying to drive around the shadow on the road! Do you think that's possible?

For me it's been a while since shadows were an issue. It looks like the steering control (NN) isn't tracking tight turns well. Even tight turn entry steering looks a a bit laggy and disconnected. And turn radius appears to get tighter where it crosses over the yellow line. That might be a worst case scenario going from a tight left turn to tight right turn with a decreasing radius. Maybe a good location for Tesla to collect data.

 

[tivoboy]

Thanks, that's disappointing! I guess I will not be installing 12.3 any time soon.

I just setup two profiles… I’ve actually ALWAYS had two profiles setup, one with TACC/AP and one with FSDb.. I usually DO come to a park stop to switch, but that is the only settings change between the two. It’s pretty easy and works fine. My SO, HATES FSDb. And has simply NEVER enabled it in her profile..