FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[JB47394]

Well, that is the law, at least in Oregon.

The Monday Morning Commute: Ask Traffic Engineer Paul Basha: When A Driver Enters An Intersection On A Yellow Light, Are They Legally Required To Clear The Intersection Before The Light Turns Red? – Summit Land Management

In Rhode Island, West Virginia, Louisiana, and Tennessee; drivers cannot be in the intersection when the red light appears. In 37 states, if a driver enters the intersection on a yellow light, they have the legal right to continue through the intersection after the red light appears.

In Oregon, Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Mississippi, Virginia, New Jersey, and Connecticut; the law is nuanced. In these states, drivers should stop when the yellow light appears, unless it is not safe to stop. Much judgment by you and the observing officer or camera.

The states of Arizona, Nevada, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Michigan, Tennessee, Virginia, Kentucky, and New Hampshire state in their driver training manuals that drivers are prohibited from accelerating to enter the intersection while the light is yellow.

I find it amazing that the simple rules that I learned all those years ago is not in force everywhere.

1. If the light is green, you may enter the intersection.
2. If the light is yellow, you may enter the intersection, but a red light is coming.
3. If the light is red, you may not enter the intersection.
4. A car in the intersection has right of way.

Until FSD V12, that's the way it worked. It matched the way people drive. It's ironic that V12 now doesn't drive the way people drive. This is the sort of thing that encourages me to not use the system. It's dangerous to brake like that.

 

[JulienW]

Many highways (especially with intersections) are considered a "city street" in Tesla mapping, so V12 stack operates there.

Yeah, "Highways" are ONLY Limited Access highways.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Minnesota's still at zero!

It's your climate. You have been frozen out of the update.

 

[Supcom]

I thought the V12 only updated the city-streets part with neural network control. The release notes specifically mention "city streets". I received it 2 days ago.

Lower speed street driving behavior is obviously completely different, and a significant improvement, by far the biggest change in 2 years I've experienced it.

So Cal freeway driving felt still robotic, but maybe with some code tweaks.

"City streets" should not be taken too literally. V12 seems to be used on the same roads that V10.x FSDb was used. Back then, NOA was used on limited access highways and, generally, rural highways, including two-lane roads, with speed limit of 65 mph and greater, and FSDb used everywhere else.

The road I was on had a speed limit of 60 mph, so V12 was being used. If you have Auto Max Speed enabled, you can easily tell whether V12 or V11 is used by the Max speed display. You can also tell by the length of the noodle, but at higher speeds it harder to discern.

 

[Supcom]

Took my spouse out for a demonstration drive on 12.3. There were zero interventions on four separate drives. Much of it was heavy traffic. FSD received the highly coveted Spouse Approval Factor, making it officially L4 in my house.

Once my spouse insists that it drive instead of me, FSD will be L5.

 

[arnolddeleon]

With a stopped or stopping lead vehicle it was applying inappropriately high braking force too early. So it was doing a lot of pre-emphasis, over braking. Then it would ease way off the brakes and coast to a stop.

I think this pretty common with humans. I think I used to brake like this a long time ago. My wild ass guess is that humans want to be sure they're going to stop in time so brake hard early because they don't fully internalize how fast a car can stop. Then they let up. Since V12 is trained on humans I don't think it is at all surprising.

 

[KLam]

Instead of complaining the slowness of 12.3. I set out to make my drives with 12.3 more enjoyable. Knowing that everybody have their own preferences.

1. when it slows down too early, I just tap the accelerator a bit to delay the slow down.
2. when it stops at the post and far away from the stop line, I just tap the accelerator to move it closer.
3. when it does not accelerate as quick as I want, I just tap the accelerator to make it accelerate a little faster.
4. when the max speed is a little slow, I just tap the accelerator to speed it up.
5. on know problem turns I just do it myself.
6. I get in and out of shopping areas manually and adjust ride height.
7. I park my self and adjust ride height.

 

[kabin]

V12.3 seems to have excess drift within the lane even on well marked straight roadways. V11 lane positioning is nuts-on versus v12.3 which at times might qualify for a sobriety check. Also, vehicle speed isn't being tightly controlled. Maybe velocity and steering NNs are outputting too much low frequency noise?

Best to view at 1.5x to 2x video playback.

 

[TK211X]

What’s 2024.8.4 it just got 1000

It’s possible 12.3 (.25) died until another ver. Goes through internal testing

 

[DBeckwith]

New wave just started!

 

[TK211X]

New wave just started!

I had to blink a couple times. You’re right. But like ~60? Why.

Values are slowly creeping.

 

[DBeckwith]

I had to blink a couple times. You’re right. But like ~60? Why.

Values are slowly creeping.

72.

Could be slowed by simultaneous rollout of 2024.8.4.

 

[Kyrne]

Tiny wave! I wonder why so small for this late in the rollout processes. Could also be chance-bias towards vehicles not on stats services?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

My wild ass guess is that humans want to be sure they're going to stop in time so brake hard early because they don't fully internalize how fast a car can stop. Then they let up. Since V12 is trained on humans I don't think it is at all surprising.

I agree some humans drive this way but I think there is more to it than that, since many do not.

1. when it slows down too early, I just tap the accelerator a bit to delay the slow down.

This is hard to do without it flipping out and slamming on you. And you have to anticipate in advance and assert control of the accelerator on the slowdown (but not too much). It’s basically impossible to do smoothly.

It’s much easier to fix acceleration problems than braking problems.

 

[j0shm1lls]

Lies! It is NOT up to date

EDIT: Looks like this might be a HW4 wave primarily.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

V12.3 seems to have excess drift within the lane even on well marked straight roadways. V11 lane positioning is nuts-on versus v12.3 which at times might qualify for a sobriety check. Also, vehicle speed isn't being tightly controlled. Maybe velocity and steering NNs are outputting too much low frequency noise?

Best to view at 1.5x to 2x video playback.

Wow. I noticed it without slowing down playback speed.

 

[Acisplat]

View attachment 1029415

Lies! It is NOT up to date

EDIT: Looks like this might be a HW4 wave primarily.

Checked my car and got the same thing I have one of the last HW3 and USS equipped Model X

 

[cbrigante2]

View attachment 1029415

Lies! It is NOT up to date

EDIT: Looks like this might be a HW4 wave primarily.

Yup...just got notification on my HW4 Model Y

 

[sleepydoc]

V12 seems to want to stop for a light as soon as it goes yellow. If it can stop, it will stop, and it'll brake pretty hard to do it. Then there are the cases where it will start to brake, realize that it's going to end up in the intersection, then continue on.

Noticed this too. Also I had it start to slow down and then gun it through. Kinda strange and seemed more like a human caught in-between.

I actually think 11.4.9 handles yellow lights pretty well - it stops when it doesn't have to brake overly hard and proceeds if it's closer.

The Monday Morning Commute: Ask Traffic Engineer Paul Basha: When A Driver Enters An Intersection On A Yellow Light, Are They Legally Required To Clear The Intersection Before The Light Turns Red? – Summit Land Management

I find it amazing that the simple rules that I learned all those years ago is not in force everywhere.

1. If the light is green, you may enter the intersection.
2. If the light is yellow, you may enter the intersection, but a red light is coming.
3. If the light is red, you may not enter the intersection.
4. A car in the intersection has right of way.

Until FSD V12, that's the way it worked. It matched the way people drive. It's ironic that V12 now doesn't drive the way people drive. This is the sort of thing that encourages me to not use the system. It's dangerous to brake like that.

In MN you are only allowed to enter the intersection if you can also exit. If you are making a left turn and the destination lane is open, you can enter and wait for oncoming traffic to pass. If you are turning or going straight and the destination lane is full you are required to wait until the lane has enough space for you to proceed.

 

[Mardak]

Tiny wave! I wonder why so small for this late in the rollout processes

TeslaFi total numbers for 12.3 are now up to ~750 from ~675, so indeed relatively small. Teslascope shows most of the latest wave is coming from 2023.44.30.8, which includes HW4 vehicles (whereas .14 did not go to HW4 vehicles), so one guess is increasing the HW4 rollout from 1% to 15%?