FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[mtndrew1]

I’ve got to say the bloom is off the rose for me with v12.

It’s quite clearly a completely different system than 11 and it does some stuff amazingly well. That said, last night I had my first honk ever from another motorist in 2.5 years of FSDb because my car decided to fake out a car in an adjacent lane with three or four incomplete lane changes in quick succession.

Once I got over the thrill of v12 not signaling for no reason ten times a day and the wheel not flailing around like a spaz, it became obvious that this thing has a long way to go, at least in Los Angeles.

On to 12.3.1…

 

[tmoz]

Not at all. Computers of all kinds makes "decisions" all the time, but they dont think.

How is this different from (many) humans? LOL.

 

[kabin]

I’ve got to say the bloom is off the rose for me with v12.

It’s quite clearly a completely different system than 11 and it does some stuff amazingly well. That said, last night I had my first honk ever from another motorist in 2.5 years of FSDb because my car decided to fake out a car in an adjacent lane with three or four incomplete lane changes in quick succession.

Once I got over the thrill of v12 not signaling for no reason ten times a day and the wheel not flailing around like a spaz, it became obvious that this thing has a long way to go, at least in Los Angeles.

On to 12.3.1…

I've only driven a couple of relatively short neighborhood drives and excessive braking in traffic gives me the willies. One size fits all braking and accelerating for the win.

 

[sleepydoc]

Was NOT the topic of discussion. We were discussing braking. I haven’t really complained about “going” as much with this build. Some issues at stop signs but largely related to decisions, not the acceleration profile.

Acceleration and deceleration are the same, it's just a difference in the sign. Like I said, what I'm experiencing is a more rapid (but not 'hard') initial braking/deceleration followed by slower braking up to the stop line. it's not perfectly linear but I certainly wouldn't call it jerky.

However:
FWIW it now actually accelerates fast enough - off the line this morning I actually exceeded the speed of other traffic a bit. Nice slow start followed by a solid acceleration - what you want at intersections with red-light runners. The only issue really is that it fails to reach the desired velocity.


Exactly the issue. It’s totally borked rolling up to any stop line. Issue 1.

If you're experiencing what I am as you say, it's not totally borked, it's just different. We've had this discussion before - you don't seem to appreciate there are different styles that are all acceptable.

 

[drtimhill]

Acceleration and deceleration are the same, it's just a difference in the sign. Like I said, what I'm experiencing is a more rapid (but not 'hard') initial braking/deceleration followed by slower braking up to the stop line. it's not perfectly linear but I certainly wouldn't call it jerky.

If you're experiencing what I am as you say, it's not totally borked, it's just different. We've had this discussion before - you don't seem to appreciate there are different styles that are all acceptable.

Perhaps Tesla need to train the car entirely on Alan's origin videos and bring out a special "Alan Edition" of FSD?

 

[mtndrew1]

I've only driven a couple of relatively short neighborhood drives and excessive braking in traffic gives me the willies. One size fits all braking and accelerating for the win.

It’s making me a little nauseous.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

“no input is the correct amount of input"

It’s key to know these phrases, which are deep truths:

“All input is error.”
“The best part is no part.”

Acceleration and deceleration are the same, it's just a difference in the sign

As has been astutely pointed out, they are quite a bit different in implementation since one has a target end location which is harder than just picking a profile.

you don't seem to appreciate there are different styles that are all acceptable.

I have posted quantifiable data which has nothing to do with preference. It points to a metric that is well established, in an objective sense, to be comfortable and comforting. Unless you are looking for some sort of neck-strengthening exercise. As a bonus, it is more efficient and safer too.

Perhaps Tesla need to train the car entirely on Alan's origin videos and bring out a special "Alan Edition" of FSD?

I don’t understand people’s hesitance to call out an obviously objectively poor aspect of FSD. As you all know I am very bullish about v12. This does not mean we can’t criticize the obvious undesirable aspects of it.

We all know perfectly well that passengers will get super upset with the occasionally poor current stopping behavior from 45-50mph.

 

[EVNow]

Would the NHTSA allow such a set of arbitrary actions?

Not arbitrary at all.

When you (or FSD) see yellow from a distance when you can safely stop, you stop. If it turns yellow when you are too close to safely stop - you go. Thats why we have yellow as a transition color between green & red.

You don't have to know the exact timings, speed limit etc and calculate. Humans don't do that. You use your judgement to figure it out - exactly what FSD should be trained on so it can learn

 

[EVNow]

there have been many (stupid) cases of municipalities SHORTENING the yellow light time purely to get more red light violations and generate more revenue via fines

Links ?

 

[EVNow]

Always been curious, does Chuck live on that corner or simply hang out there all day hunting for Tesla’s? He is certainly committed

I THINK he lives somewhere up the street based on where he used to start all the videos before..

Yes - I think that is his normal get out of the neighborhood route. So he probably passes it several times a day when he is in town.

 

[EVNow]

Small consolation for those that have been upgraded to the 2024 branch. You're likely to get this new Autopark before those of us on V12:

Tesla's New 'Tap to Park' Autopark Feature [Updated With Video]

Tesla has released its new 'Tap to Park' Autopark feature in Tesla update 2024.2.11, although it be currently be in internal testing

www.notateslaapp.com

Although the previous version of Autopark worked, it was difficult to have it detect a parking spot on the screen and it often parked very slowly, but it was usually surprisingly accurate. Both of these shortcomings are expected to be improved in this latest iteration.​

​

I hope the "shortcoming" they are going to fix is not the "surprisingly accurate" part

 

[KLam]

You have to watch the whole clip to appreciate the test drive lady! 12.3 is rude and wife torturing. Some fun moments. It's a Disney E-ticket ride!

 

[sleepydoc]

I've seen this for quite a while with earlier versions. It does the light-blue thing with the lane you want, but stays in the current lane. PSA: The workaround is to immediately cancel with a half depress of the stalk, then re-request.

I've noticed that with 12.3, it sometimes does not display the light blue path on the target lane.

I've also found that holding the stalk down works

 

[sleepydoc]

Although the previous version of Autopark worked

"worked" as in...about 10% of the time you actually get it to recognize a parking spot, and complete the process without freezing or giving up?

 

[JulienW]

You have to watch the whole clip to appreciate the test drive lady!.....

1H:30M Clip????? So if that is a Clip how long do you consider a proper move to be?

 

[EVNow]

"worked" as in...about 10% of the time you actually get it to recognize a parking spot, and complete the process without freezing or giving up?

More like 90% in my case (atleast pre-Covid when I used to commute to work and use autopark to park at the office building).

I hope the new version works as well as in other cars !

 

[frankvb]

It also got stuck trying to decide between two lanes to travel in while slowing down at a red light, with the steering wheel jerking back and forth violently until I disengaged. Twice. i’ve only had FSD 12.3 for a day.

I wondered why I didn't see anyone reporting this - this happens a lot for me, and it is rather unsafe with cars behind you. It even happens when making a left turn, instead of going deliberately in the turn lane, it drives in the middle in between the straight and turn lane way too long, and I have to disengage to steer it into the turn lane. I'd say this is a real showstopper, and though v11 didn't change lanes quickly enough into the turn lane for me, in general it handled this way better.

 

[old pilot]

I received v12.3 2023.44.30.25 yesterday. I am not sure about the new way speed control works. On 11.v I could set a speed and the car would maintain that speed except when following a slower car of in a turn. Now I set a speed and have found I must use the accelerator to get the car to the selected speed. Not sure about this new system. Am I missing something?

 

[frankvb]

It’ll fall behind if the vehicle in front shows enough alacrity (not much is required). Yes I have seen this, was watching it yesterday on Mira Mesa. Vehicle in front gradually increased spacing and I kept falling further behind. No one was moving quickly (probably going 50-55mph in a 50mph), up from 45mph when began to lose track, lead vehicle speed increased over the course of 10 seconds or so as traffic in front cleared out.

Indeed exactly my experience on MM Blvd. As well, it's driving in the middle lane around 35-40 mph, left lane is free, and it doesn't move into the left lane to speed up.

 

[JB47394]

I received v12.3 2023.44.30.25 yesterday. I am not sure about the new way speed control works. On 11.v I could set a speed and the car would maintain that speed except when following a slower car of in a turn. Now I set a speed and have found I must use the accelerator to get the car to the selected speed. Not sure about this new system. Am I missing something?

The current behavior is considered flawed by Tesla and they are hoping to provide a fix as soon as this weekend. It will be V12.3.1.

We'll just have to wait and see what they consider a "fix" to be.