FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[sleepydoc]

According to that diagram (including the yellow line), yellow must yield to blue. You know this because yellow is crossing a broken white line. That line is there to communicate that blue has right of way.

I’ve never noticed those dotted lines before but you’re right. Once you know it makes sense - It’s not actually 2 circular lanes, rather the inner lane is a circle and the outer lanes are more like 4 arcs that enter and leave (with some short connecting bits.) The inner lane actually splits at each exit and the outer lane exits unless you cross over the inner lane. If you don’t know that, the natural impression is to think of it as 2 circles which means the inner circle crosses the outer one to exit.

 

[gottagofast]

Maybe I’ll get 3.1 then since the earliest I could get it is this weekend

 

[bhakan]

Welcome to 12.3.


Also, doesn’t it seem like the one day we didn’t get a wave we’re not getting that tacked onto the next wave / refunded? We’re being shorted here.

I am a fan of the people that are expediting their installs and more than one wave per day however.

Someone needs to find Elon at a restaurant and instruct the servers to bring his meal out 2-3 bites at a time.

....while I am checking Amazon for the matching wheel scratch paint....

 

[mgs333]

He actually follows me on X. Did you see that he got people that sub'd to him to post pics of their cars and the vins saying he was going to try to get them FSD? I don't recall punching him, but I also don't sub...

It was just posting a pic of their car, no VIN, no way to identify which random punter was posting. And his promise was that they'd get V12.3 that weekend. (this was last Friday I think). And there were hundreds of gullible people posting and thanking him. I didn't realize that many people were that gullible...

 

[primedive]

An update on multilane traffic roundabouts. 12.3 does marvelously in even heavy traffic when exiting the roundabout's 1st exit (right turn equivalent) and 2nd exit (straight equivalent) because it stays in the outer lane. However, when exiting the 3rd exit (left turn equivalent) it becomes a blubbering mess. Before entering the roundabout, it first signals a left turn, then it swerves into the inner lane where it stays until it tries to exit. Then it puts on its right turn signal and cuts off all the traffic in the outer lanes. Admittedly, multilane roundabouts are a dumb design and further, most US drivers don't understand them. With regard to roundabouts, FSD seems to rely on Catch 22. If everyone else drives poorly in a roundabout, I'd be a fool to do otherwise.

I spent a lot of time in countries that almost exclusively use multilane roundabouts and a left turn should look like this:

If that’s what the car was doing, it’s not really cutting off but correct. I’m curious what the car was doing?

 

[primedive]

The fundamental problem with two lane roundabouts is that there is a built in point of conflict/collision. If a car is traveling north in the center lane going straight through and another car enters from the east traveling straight through to the west they will collide as indicated below.

View attachment 1030785

Yellow line’s gotta be pretty bullheaded to crash there. If someone’s already in the circle, yellow needs to yield to both lanes. IME more likely is the red line tries to go left, into the black line. After getting honked at a few times, you learn not to do that.

I would also say that turn from the inner to outer lane by black for the 3rd exit is no bueno.

Edit: blue, not black…

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

12.3 slows appropriately for raised railroad crossings. This is a HUGE Improvement for me. The slowed speed for such crossings is perfect, exactly as I would manually drive over them. No more big, big jumps at raised railroad crossings anymore!

 

[gsmith123]

I would also say that turn from the inner to outer lane by black for the 3rd exit is no bueno.

If a car enters the inner lane of the roundabout, what do you think they are allowed to do then? Any route from the inner lane involves crossing over the outer lane.

 

[primedive]

I’ve never noticed those dotted lines before but you’re right. Once you know it makes sense - It’s not actually 2 circular lanes, rather the inner lane is a circle and the outer lanes are more like 4 arcs that enter and leave (with some short connecting bits.) The inner lane actually splits at each exit and the outer lane exits unless you cross over the inner lane. If you don’t know that, the natural impression is to think of it as 2 circles which means the inner circle crosses the outer one to exit.

Another way to think of it is, you also can’t turn left from a right lane at a square intersection, and if someone wants to cross your road from the crossroad, they have to yield to both of your lanes. The circle removes the lights but right lane can still only go right or straight, and left lane can still only go left (or u-turn) and straight.

 

[Alset2]

So is anyone else missing visualizations?
Im missing, trash cans, and traffic cones / barrels.
I also no longer get the notification telling me what the car is doing...like "changing lanes to follow rout" stuff.

 

[primedive]

If a car enters the inner lane of the roundabout, what do you think they are allowed to do then? Any route from the inner lane involves crossing over the outer lane.

What I’m saying is when turning left, the inner lane should enter the left lane of the 3rd road, not the right lane. You stay in your lane in a roundabout.

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

Same 13 mile drive as yesterday but in the Chill FSDb profile. A little better safety score:

View attachment 1030845

It now turns and goes up my driveway instead of stopping in the street. But doesn't make it to the parking spot.

Neural network wants to say you do the rest ungrateful human.

 

[MP3Mike]

So is anyone else missing visualizations?
Im missing, trash cans, and traffic cones / barrels.

They were removed in V12. (It seems to be scaled down V11 visualizations.)

I also no longer get the notification telling me what the car is doing...like "changing lanes to follow rout" stuff.

That is likely because E2E neural networks don't provide reasons for what it does. The reasons will likely not come back.

 

[JHCCAZ]

If a car enters the inner lane of the roundabout, what do you think they are allowed to do then? Any route from the inner lane involves crossing over the outer lane.

I think that's okay because cars in the outer lane must turn right immediately, they aren't allowed to use it for straight through routing or left turn routing. At least that's my understanding, with the disclaimer that I've never actually driven a multi-lane roundabout myself.

Edit: I guess the Europeans on this forum are snickering at the naivete of USA drivers discussing kindergarten basics of roundabouts!

 

[gsmith123]

After about 90 miles of testing V12.3, this release seems like a very interesting but mixed bag.

From videos and reviews, I think I ended up coming in with too high of expectations for smoothness and assertiveness arounds pedestrians. It's more like a 5 steps forward and 1-2 steps back for me, although I suspect it's poorly trained for Colorado road design compared to California.

In areas where it works well (including some challenging situations) it performs extremely well. Those are incredibly satisfying, and the ceiling for FSD performance is extremely high.

Wins:
- Construction zones
- Pathing through complex situations
- Very smooth (90% of the time)
- Lead vehicles cutting out (doesn't over-brake)
- Multi lane changes
- Roundabouts (95% perfect)
- Speed bump and dip detection
- Uturns! (80% there)

Struggles:
- Basic stop sign handling (deceleration profile, stopping position, creeping, and jerky steering all have problems)
- Inconsistent following distance on suburban arterial roads
- Still overly hesitant in a variety of situations. When I have a trailing vehicle I find I often need to give it a nudge to move through an intersection faster, or bump up speed by 5mph.
- Lane selection (but different problems than v11, ha!)
- Deceleration profile in general (not just stop signs). Rarely holds a constant deceleration from, say, 45mph down to 12mph.
- Auto-speed has been discussed at length. It's smoother at speed limit changes, too hesitant overall, and fixes a place where V11 refused to go more than about 12 mph.

I think that's okay because cars in the outer lane must turn right immediately

I don't believe that's true for roundabouts around here (Denver CO). Or if it is nobody follows that rule.

 

[Alset2]

They were removed in V12. (It seems to be scaled down V11 visualizations.)


That is likely because E2E neural networks don't provide reasons for what it does. The reasons will likely not come back.

as long as it's not just me! BTW, it usually is lol
Thanks for the info

 

[RNHurt]

*cries in 2024.2.7*

You and me both! So, has ANYONE on 2024 gotten 12.3 yet? Am I just wasting my time hitting refresh all day?

 

[TK211X]

You and me both! So, has ANYONE on 2024 gotten 12.3 yet? Am I just wasting my time hitting refresh all day?

No and you won't unless a FW that has 12.x is based on a version that supersedes your current version.

 

[swedge]

So, has ANYONE on 2024 gotten 12.3 yet? Am I just wasting my time hitting refresh all day?

No and you won't unless a FW that has 12.x is based on a version that supersedes your current version.

Make that "until" there is a FW that has 12.x based on a version newer than yours. You will get 12.x, but so far 12.x is only going to a pre-selected set of cars which are not being updated to 20.24.anything.

12.3 still does not do freeways, and instead uses the 11.4.9 stack. They will want to get that done and tested before merging fed v 12 with 2024 main branch. So it will not be this weekend for you.

 

[primedive]

I think that's okay because cars in the outer lane must turn right immediately, they aren't allowed to use it for straight through routing or left turn routing. At least that's my understanding, with the disclaimer that I've never actually driven a multi-lane roundabout myself.

Edit: I guess the Europeans on this forum are snickering at the naivete of USA drivers discussing kindergarten basics of roundabouts!

you just get used to it. It’s similar to a normal square intersection: you stay in the same lane and when exiting, exit onto the lane you entered on. You don’t go left unless you were in the left lane when you entered. When you do turn left, you turn onto the leftmost lane.

I never drove on this thing but it looks fun: