FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[rlsd]

First drive with v12.3.2.1:

1. Made 1 auto park. Good. I noticed after autopark there is the word PARK in red on the upper left corner of the screen instead of PNRD.
But when manually parked, PNRD is shown.

2. There are some regressions from v12.3.1:
When stopped at intersection, the car did not move after green light was on. I had to press accelerator. (1 time)
After exiting from freeway the car was too slow to enter the street when it's near the street. v12.3.1 was much quicker at that location. v11.4.9 was slow too.

3. I don't see anything called Supervised Full Self Driving in the release note and on screen. It's still Beta.

 

[mgs333]

Actually I am in a good mood today.
Thursday was the last day I will allow anyone to get me Tax documents and still file by April 15th. Anyone coming in now are on Auto extension.
So back to bankers hours as of today .

Word is about 45 minutes to an hour for download and install.

My CPA must not like me, I'm still twiddling my thumbs on sending him my documents.

On a related note, drove my wife's car with 12.3.2.1 on trial and it's a little better in terms of going at a decent speed but still too slow for my liking. But it was raining so hoping it's better when it's dry. There was signs of hope where it did go up to my desired max speed.

 

[aviators99]

Played with 12.3.2.1 today. Had some good drives and parks (no USS).

On the last segment, I was in a parking lot and there were two adjacent open spots on the left. I chose the leftmost spot. I pressed the "Start" button and it pulled forward and to the right, preparing to back in. The person behind me got impatient (don't really blame him for that) and he just pulled into the spot (I do blame him for that -- not very courteous). Anyway, I thought, "Ah, this will be a good beta test. It should abort." However, to my surprise it did not. It started backing up towards the (now occupied) space and showed no sign it was going to stop. I hit the brake earlier than I absolutely needed to, really because there was someone in the other car still and my wife was in my car, and I didn't want to cause an incident with either of them. But I'm pretty sure it would have dutifully backed into the other car.

And yes, it showed the other car in the spot on the display, so that made it even more surprising. I've been an AI programmer for over 40 years. From this, I'm concluding that the parking code is not NN code, and is functional programmatic code.

 

[phxazcraig]

I did two test drives today, the first repeating a route I did last with with 12.3. My HW4 2023MYP got 12.3.2.1 pushed to it today, 12.3 last Thursday.

It's clearly better. It's still way way slow at stop signs, but I don't mind since I can simply override it to be as aggressive as I want using the accelerator pedal.
It's better in lane choices (in terms of thinking ahead), but I've had it really 'waffle' between two lanes coming to a stop light, going back and forth while never actually getting in either. But it also stayed within lane lines better than in the past.

Speeds - still a bit of a mystery here using Max Auto, but overall more natural than last version. And my scroll wheel worked up and down, though now that I think about it that was on the freeway, and I guess that means ver 11.4.9 behavior there.

The routes I take it on are short and include about 40% freeway. Easy to see if old behaviors change with each version.

My take: 12.3.2.1 is good. It worked for me in good weather, good lighting, strong setting sunlight (in Phoenix, so it really is strong) and after dark on marked and unstriped roads and freeways. It's not nearly scary, but sometimes its very very slow to start.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Actually I'm watching it because my son's car is installing right now and I want to see how long it takes to show when that completes.

Word is about 45 minutes to an hour for download and install.

What I meant was that I was watching TeslaFi to see how long it took for the server to update and show his car, and at what point in the process that would happen. He texted me as soon as the installation was complete, then it rebooted. A minute or two later it was listed on TeslaFi.

He has a Y with HW4. He subscribed just a few days ago and got 12.3 the next day (was holding off the 2024 offered updates). Then today he got 12.3.2.1. Like most here, I still don't have it yet.

We will have to see if he gets an extra month due to the free trial starting just days after he subscribed, or whether it will just run concurrently with the paid subscription.

 

[JHCCAZ]

It worked for me in good weather, good lighting, strong setting sunlight (in Phoenix, so it really is strong)

This is an issue for me almost every day. I have to drive around sunset, and it's quite bad both for me and for FSD in the interval between about 20 minutes and 5 minutes before sunset. A couple of times, I've had it simply stop when there is a green light but the sun is exactly behind it and it's very difficult to make out. This is obviously very uncomfortable when it happens, and it's hard for me see also and decide everything quickly enough that I should override it.

At some point I'd like to do a comparison to see if HW4 front cameras can deal with the direct sunlight any better.

In addition, this depends strongly on the cleanliness of the windshield, both inside and outside surfaces, over the front cameras. Back in September I was having a great deal of trouble, with FSD frequently refusing to continue with low sun. Looking at dash cam clips, I could see there was an absolutely horrible flare problem even after I cleaned the windshield outside surface. Kind of scary really, when you looked at the video recording.

So I did some searching online and figured out how to remove the camera housing over the rear view mirror, then cleaned the glass with isopropyl. My car is parked outside and gets direct Arizona sun many hours per day, and there was a significant film/haze on the inner glass over the cameras. I saved dash cam clips of my sunset drives in the days before and after this cleaning procedure, and it made a huge difference (much better but not flare-free after the cleaning).

I have to assume that Tesla is quite aware of this, but it rarely gets discussed. I think there should be some AI-trained recognition of notable flare from sunlight, headlamps and street lights at night. Then the owner could be informed of the issue and schedule a service. I also think they should redesign the camera housing to be much simpler to remove for cleaning the glass. It's not a small issue and most people never think about it.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

How can you disagree?

Too slow. Slowness not related to bad visibility.

Sure Tesla can speed up the creep

Yeah they should do that. Tesla drivers are already extremely slow, they have a rep. Best not to make it even worse.

world is not round, due to mountainous regions.

Oblate spheroid due to spin. Everyone knows this.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Traffic light behaviour on HW4 is noticably better. It spots red lights and other traffic hazards much sooner than HW3 ever did. Same for highway, HW4 spots brake lights further away than HW3.

Elon Musk, March 29th: " Hardware 4 will ultimately be better, but all training is for Hardware 3, with HW4 running in emulation mode"

Wonder whether this is inconsistent or not. Depends on what emulation mode does exactly I suppose.

 

[phxazcraig]

This is an issue for me almost every day. I have to drive around sunset, and it's quite bad both for me and for FSD in the interval between about 20 minutes and 5 minutes before sunset. A couple of times, I've had it simply stop when there is a green light but the sun is exactly behind it and it's very difficult to make out. This is obviously very uncomfortable when it happens, and it's hard for me see also and decide everything quickly enough that I should override it.

At some point I'd like to do a comparison to see if HW4 front cameras can deal with the direct sunlight any better.

FSD drove me west on Dove Valley Road directly into the setting sun - I mean a big ball of sun setting in the roadway ahead. In fact the display switched over to night mode exactly as the sun was halfway below the horizon. I thought that was pretty neat. I had trouble seeing, but the cameras didn't. My windshield is clean, and I park it inside.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Oblate spheroid due to spin. Everyone knows this.

FSD 12.3 just figured this out. That's why it's so much smoother.

 

[RNHurt]

I’ve thought about things like a car hitting a stop sign and knocking it down then the highway people not coming for days to fix it

In those few days it takes for them to fix the sign FSD would just run through where the stop sign normally was

Things like this can’t be solved with Ai and would always need driver supervision behind the wheel, then there’s a bunch of other small things you could think of like this as well, I think it’s impossible to have completely no driver FSD through the whole US because of things like this

Traffic lights losing power then a police man has to direct traffic with hand signals is another example

The thing is, human drivers screw those things up too. I'm not sure we can expect FSD to correctly navigate every single instance perfectly every time when even humans can't do that. Is that fair?

 

[rlsd]

Last year I wanted to have the option to upgrade my car HW3 to HW4. Now I don't. I can keep my HW3 for 3-4 years then buy a new car with HW5.

 

[JulienW]

To be honest most situations that 12.3.2.1 struggled with for me involved other vehicles and this is more of a risk calculation art.

You NEED the other person to not be an ass for some of these maneuvers or at least shove your actual ass in front of them fast enough that they chill out otherwise they'll be at fault. This is very very real. Sometimes all you really need is the potential collision to be such that the other party is at fault for the other drivers ego to stop.

This happens ALL THE TIME. Like when people don't let you merge. Or when you're trying to enter the road and the other person speeds up ON PURPOSE.

If every person on the road was submissive and breedable this wouldn't be an issue.

Which brings up an interesting conundrum. In the future when people become more aware and understanding of self driving cars they will be more likely to cut them off, walk in front of them, block them in, etc, since self driving cars have no passion and will willing yield. We are stating to see these type of behavior towards Waymo.

 

[JulienW]

How can Hardware 4 be better than Hardware 3 if Hardware 3 unlocks robotaxis? That is peak FSD.

Will Hardware 4 take even more liability? I don’t know what this means.

Robotaxies for HW4 in "two weeks" and HW3 will take until the "end of the year".

 

[JulienW]

The visualizations are based on V11 right? They didn't get updated?

I noticed the visualization has hallucinations. Like stuff that's NOT there. Like one example is a road I went down had no lines of any kind the road was straight black and the visualization gave it dotted line then a random double yellow at times.

Yeah, I bet the visualizations haven't received much attention in v12. Likely after a few months we will see some visualization update love. But right now getting the damn slow a$$ thing to drive at traffic speeds and hopefully adding a highway stack are ahead of the eye candy.

 

[JulienW]

The count you watch is the left number, then add the the 1st row (today)
Add those 2, then you can track
Really just seeing big numbers furthest left is best
You can tell what's going to happen by incremental adds

Now another 34 added.. it's about to go way up

That left number NEEDS to be one higher.

 

[JulienW]

I do need to stop picking on you

I should start on Alan, since I have never picked on him before... lmao

Please just avoid me. I'm ultra sensitive today and just the thought of not getting 24.3.6 yet might trigger me.

Actually I more excited to update to 24.3.x for the new feature than 12.3.2.1 (jeez stop with the 4 numbers and just call it 12.3.3 ) since the beta seems to be a faux speed update from 12.3.

 

[JulienW]

One question I haven't seen answer is what happens in a School Zone? Does FSD pay attention to flashing yellow lights? Will it slow down during school hours? Or will I risk going to jail for speeding next to a school at 3:00 in the afternoon?

Not likely yet. Like with v11 they need to train the basics before tackling more "edge cases" that are for more varied setups and dynamic situations later.

 

[Mardak]

How can Hardware 4 be better than Hardware 3 if Hardware 3 unlocks robotaxis?

Does a robotaxi need to avoid every pothole? If not, do you think it would be better if HW4 end-to-end could avoid more of those potholes? There's potential for the newer hardware (cameras and compute) to see more with higher resolution and respond faster to be better such as increased comfort.

 

[JulienW]

Does a robotaxi need to avoid every pothole? If not, do you think it would be better if HW4 end-to-end could avoid more of those potholes? There's potential for the newer hardware (cameras and compute) to see more with higher resolution and respond faster to be better such as increased comfort.

Depends if Waymo owns it or it is my car.