FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[MP3Mike]

Percentage offset is workable, as long as you don't mind dialing occasionally.

On my ~13 miles trip that would require adjusting the speed 8+ times. (If an alternate route gets picked because of traffic that can shoot up to 12, or more, times that it would need adjusted.) Which I really don't want to do. I just want a fixed 9 MPH offset.

Remember, Manual mode is identical to ASSO mode (AFAICT). It just makes the cap value visible (and generally lower).

You're contradicting yourself. If manual mode has a lower cap speed, then it isn't "identical to ASSO mode."

Does manual mode honor the percent offset that we can control? (I haven't tried manual mode at all in V12+.) I'll have to give it a shot and see on my next trip.

Note that @MP3Mike and I do not disagree, or at least I haven't seen him disagree with me yet.

I absolutely disagree with you:

There are a lot of reasons why AutoMax could speed. In my scenario, it did not - it knew the limits, decided on its speed, and it was consistently slow.

It is not "consistently slow" at all.

I don't think it will ever go the speed everyone wants, that just isn't possible. But I want to be able to set a limit: "do not ever go more than 9 MPH over the speed limit on city streets." Then I can set my offset to 50% and I will be happy.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You seem to have made up your mind that 12.3.3 has no behavioral changes,

Look at my original post; I can only work with observation interval. I specifically said the speed might have increased a little but was not sure.

Anyway we’ll see whether people think this is resolved soon enough.

If no one complains that manual mode does not respect their set speed, I will concede I was wrong.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It is not "consistently slow" at all.

You cannot say this because this is what I observed. I was not making a general statement. I was saying what I saw.

You're contradicting yourself. If manual mode has a lower cap speed, then it isn't "identical to ASSO mode."

It’s not a contradiction - I said exactly what the difference was. I think as a framework for describing the two modes that is the clearest way to explain it.

They are not magically different with one reverting back to the old behavior. The old one is the new one, with a different set speed.

Let me know if there are other differences. There may be but I have switched back and forth and observed no change in behavior. Except that one thing.

Does manual mode honor the percent offset that we can control? (I haven't tried manual mode at all in V12+.) I

As far as I can tell yes. The set speed is as expected. But the car does not honor it.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Look at my original post; I can only work with observation interval. I specifically said the speed might have increased a little but was not sure.

Anyway we’ll see whether people think this is resolved soon enough.

If no one complains that manual mode does not respect their set speed, I will concede I was wrong.

Fair enough. To be clear, "better" or "much better" doesn't mean that it will never go slower than user-preferred speed or entered cap speed or posted speed limit. It means it will do things like that less often, hence better than the acknowledged behavior of 12.3.

 

[Buckminster]

 

[kabin]

Did the quick initial drive on v12.3.3. It's the best release yet for me. I didn't play with speed mode but speed control seemed much improved. No noticeable improvement with accel, braking, or lane drift. 0 for 4 on detecting large roadway dips. Still sluggish/indecisive at the stop sign. Turn signals still initiate too early.

 

[Ramphex]

Holy moly that took a while to install…

 

[MP3Mike]

You cannot say this because this is what I observed. I was not making a general statement. I was saying what I saw.

I'm just saying what I experienced. You said we agreed and were saying the same thing, when we are saying exactly opposite things.

 

[Ramphex]

Going to do my first 12.3.3 drive at 6am.

I guess I’ll try auto and % offset since I can’t figure out whether it’s still broken or not from all the bickering.

I like % because 9 over in a 15-20mph zone would be too much, while 9 on the interstate is either decent or likely not enough. I’ve been rocking 16% offset with 0 complaints for my personal preference. Let’s see if Auto can compete.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I'm just saying what I experienced. You said we agreed and were saying the same thing, when we are saying exactly opposite things.

I think this is just a miscommunication. I saw the car speeding too, as I indicated in my follow up message. It didn't seem substantially different than the last time I drove that stretch since it was a speed limit transition. But I also said it might go a few mph faster than v12.3 in places (wasn't sure).

We really aren't saying opposite things. It is completely consistent that for your use case it is consistently way more than you want over the limit (as we know this can happen for a variety of reasons - the speed cap is really high!), and for my use case it is consistently at the limit (and too slow), not going as fast as I would like. The conditions are different and they are completely consistent, in the appropriate framework. It all makes sense and is consistent with the same set of rules.

Your solution: Go to manual mode, with a % offset of your choosing which prevents it from going too fast. It will work, mostly. As you said it isn't exactly what you want, but you CAN prevent the speeding in most circumstances. As far as I can tell you get nearly all the benefits of ASSO still - it doesn't just blindly go to your desired speed.

The core issue for me is: how do I get the car to go the speed I want? For me it's not going fast enough. It's clear some people don't want the car to go too slowly. What's the remedy? The only solution right now is to use the accelerator.

*****
Specific example, for me: this is a posted limit of 45mph, which is not enforceable under California law (explained many times - even the modified law). The car on v12.3.3 was going 45mph. I think in the prior version it might have gone about 43mph? Someone passed me on the right going 50mph tonight. Typical is 55-60mph here. How do I get it to go faster and keep up with traffic? This is the key issue. I think I am not the only one with this problem. (On v11.x it would faithfully go 51mph unless there was a good reason not to - 13% higher than 45mph.)

We'll find out soon enough whether people are happy with this.
*****

just want a fixed 9 MPH offset.

For me I want 9mph over at 70mph limit. So I use +13% offset. In v11 it was a little slow on some surface streets, but still usually ok. (This no longer works of course on surface streets with current software.) I certainly think people should have both fixed and %.

Anyway, maybe tomorrow I'll find it goes an acceptable speed in general.

I just want people to be able to get the car to go the speed they want. If it's going too fast for them, they should be able to slow it down (currently possible without input if properly set (ASSO off, correct % offset set) in most cases). If it's going too slow, it should be possible to speed it up, within reason (not currently possible without accelerator).

Anyway I hope everyone but me is completely happy with the chosen vehicle speed. And if it's going too fast, they should go to manual mode and dial the % offset to the best possible value. For the people who find it's going too slow, sorry, there's no solution.

 

[Todd Burch]

@JulienW @Ramphex @j0shm1lls @JHCCAZ @sleepydoc @Supcom @fasteddie7
@TK211X @WilliamG @mongo
@Todd Burch @LowlyOilBurner @APotatoGod
Paging you ...

Sure enough I just checked and there it was!

 

[Dennisis]

 

[kpanda17]

Chuck Cook posted last night on YT, on Easter Sunday, his hard working
had great drives with 12.3.3, if your reading Chuck, we appreciate you

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

@Daniel in SD
12.3.3 (Count resets)
1/1
Maybe I should be worried? We'll see. He's not going to get to it until later in the week since he's flying tomorrow.

 

[SilverSp33d3r]

Why does it look like 2024.3.10 has been stopped already? Teslafi shows 0 cars pending the install.

I will admit I’m pretty sure the auto speed is the culprit as it was horrible, the rest of the drive was amazing but 10 mph on a 40 mph zone is not acceptable.

 

[mgs333]

Why does it look like 2024.3.10 has been stopped already? Teslafi shows 0 cars pending the install.

I will admit I’m pretty sure the auto speed is the culprit as it was horrible, the rest of the drive was amazing but 10 mph on a 40 mph zone is not acceptable.

I see 978 pending now.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I will admit I’m pretty sure the auto speed is the culprit as it was horrible, the rest of the drive was amazing but 10 mph on a 40 mph zone is not acceptable.

Make sure you didn’t dial down with scroll wheel too much for some other reason. This can result in too low a set speed. It typically takes a LOT of scrolling so probably it was just a limit detection issue (should be able to see that though - it will say the limit is 15mph or whatever).

By default it will set 60mph set speed in a 40mph, so if you scroll down 10 times your set speed would be 10mph. Which it would respect.

The set speed is not visible but it is used.

Of course, there could be some serious bug with the set speed algorithm too. Haven’t seen that though.

 

[Mardak]

Now it goes too fast, even if it is just keeping up with traffic. (For example, going 42 in 30 zone or 46 in a 35 MPH zone)

If these are your common problematic speed limits, given that we only have percentage offset to work with, you can pick either 30% for max 39 in 30 or 26% for max 44 in 35. Makes sense that you think AUTO is too fast as the effective max with 50% offset is 45 in 30 and 53 in 35. Presumably given other reports of higher speed limits generally has 12.x going relatively slower, e.g., 59 in 50 is "only" 18% above but within your 9mph fixed offset, picking say 26% offset might be acceptable for you (25 -> 32 (+7), 30 -> 38 (+8), 35 -> 44 (+9), 40 -> 50 (+10))?

It'll be interesting to see how end-to-end eventually controls for highway speeds as there's a lot more variations of what people feel comfortable at such speeds.

 

[phxazcraig]

V12.3 -> 12.3.2.1 -> 12.3.3 observations
I've been doing a very simple test drive from my house to a Subway and back - about 5 miles each way. Nav takes me on back roads there, and it takes me on a freeway coming home. (So 11.4.9 on part of the drive). Nice thing about this is that it's repeatable, and I can draw a few observations about differences.

12.3 - became possible to use it. Before that it was mostly a gimmick to scare my passengers. I had a number of issues on this version. It made it in and out of my gated community, but it was dog slow getting through the gate and then dog slow to get to and through the subsequent stop sign. When getting close to Subway, it made poor lane choices, and then waffled back and forth between lanes if a light turned red at that point. Terrible stop sign creeping.
12.3.2.1 - things got better, smoother. Lane choices improved, and overall things just seemed smoother. Still had most of the same issues though.
12.3.3 - now I just did this one at night, so different conditions from earlier, but one thing just seems to jump out at me - my gate interactions are much improved. Before when I came up to the gate (which will auto-open in either direction for me), the car aimed right at the post between the gates (one in, one out). After the gate opened all the way, the car would readjust and slowly creep through - slow enough I bumped the accelerator on 12.3.2.1 to not get hit by closing gates. With 12.3.3. the car aimed at the gate, waited for it to open, then pretty decently went through. This is the single biggest change I've noticed, though again, I'm doing this at night for the first time. But it feels like a real improvement.

As for Auto Max speeds, it seemed ok, but on this particular drive it mostly seemed ok before. The stop sign creeping is better, but here's the thing. The car is programmed to do non-human behavior at stop signs. A human drives up to the point he/she can see, then stops (but does a rolling stop), then goes. The car must stop AT the stop sign and come to a complete halt, then move forward to where it can see and stop again. So basically we're getting two stops at most stop signs, with a creep in between. I think the creep in between is a little better. Maybe I want to believe that.

I also told it to go to a Supercharger where I tested Autopark. It worked well, and I was within range of the cable on a V2.

For me (2023 MYP on HW4, no USS, and Android phone), I do not have Summon or Smart Summon, and I do not have Ultrawideband Bluetooth support in the app yet, although my phone supports it.

 

[phxazcraig]

By the way, it seems clear now that the stop sign behavior is forced (by law) to stop in a way humans do not. In the same way as we do not obey speed limits.
So I propose (and predict we'll see) a menu entry under Autopilot, down there with the speed limit offsets, to 'Perform Only Visibility Stop at Stop Sign'. So we don't have to stop at the sign itself, but the first place you can actually see so as not to do the stop-and creep thing.