FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[sleepydoc]

Seems to have a lot of trouble with lane selection, particularly when a lane splits into 2 (like a turn lane or a widening in the road.)

I was exiting a highway onto a cloverleaf that split into a carpool lane and a regular lane. They were both limited access highways so I don’t know if it was usi no the V11 or V12 code but it freaked out and couldn’t decide which side to take, suddenly braking to about 15 mph. There was no one behind me so I let it do its thing and it eventually figured it out but it wasn’t smooth or polished.

 

[Mardak]

Anyone else try 12.x on 2-lane 1-way streets? 12.3.3 keeps suddenly switching from the left lane without signaling. I'm guessing it's because there's slight curves that it can't see ahead, so it assumes the left lane ends. Similarly at some intersections, the lanes shift to the left on the other side, so it ends up wanting to stay straight cutting off people in the right lane.

This is no worse than 11.x, except it no longer shows the messages for why it's changing lanes. The 11.x lane visualizations keep showing yellow lines even though they're actually white.

 

[sleepydoc]

Drive better? Honestly 4 strikes in a month or less is clearly a user issue.

With V12 going out to the masses this will most likely become a common occurrence. Most of the beta users have had time to adjust to the 5 strike process. I also think the chance of reducing wheel nags anytime soon is now off the table.

Both are true. There’s a learning curve with FSD and in spite of the warnings there’s a lot of misconceptions over what it can and can’t do.

It seems like the free FSD trial program has been rather poorly executed. From the reports they’re just dropping it on people’s cars and activating it. They really should have some sort of training video going over proper use and how the monitoring system works. That would increase safety, prevent frustration and give everyone a better experience in general (also likely increasing the number of resulting subscribers.)

On the PR and regulatory side, if they have such a video it would give a good response and solidify fault on the drivers’ side in cases of misuse.

 

[zoomer0056]

Can you use turn signals to turn at intersections now? That wasn’t the case in past versions.

Yup, did that yesterday. Activate before you get there, else it might go straight.

 

[dhanson865]

Took delivery today and got a used 2018 with 12.3.3.

The car was $24,600 before tax credit and the tax credit has a cap at $25,000. I couldn't get permanent FSD and still get the $4,000 instant credit.

The car was delivered with FSD 12.3.3 installed. I don't know if the prior owner paid for the FSD computer upgrade or if Tesla did it between owners.

Cameras just finished syncing enough to allow regular autopilot Saturday afternoon. Should be able to enable Supervised FSD sometime Sunday. 99% calibrated after dinner and I had the willpower to stay home the rest of the night changing other settings (adding addresses and such)

I got the 30 day FSD trial staring on the day of delivery even though the cameras weren't calibrated.

I did not get a FSD demo from the delivery center staff.

They did NOT give me a mobile connector or a USB drive. I had bought a mobile connector in a prior year to charge my Nissan leafs (using an adapter) so I'm not hurting there but I would like to have had a 2nd one. I ordered a USB drive from Amazon so I'll be able to enable shutdown sounds and sentry and such in couple of days.

The car does still have the Intel Atom processor and has one scratch on the paint job, oh and no heated steering wheel. Other than that it seems pretty much perfect.

OK, put more air in the tires this morning and took her out for a spin.

Cameras went from 99% to 98% overnight (regressed while asleep) but made it to 100% while I was driving.

Eventually I got to a side street, pulled into a marked space at the curb, put her in park and enabled Supervised FSD.

The side road was 25 mph, I put in a destination and put it in drive and engaged SFSD sitting at 0 mph, I was not expecting a jack rabbit start. It threw me back in my seat* with full throttle acceleration from 0-20 and let off the throttle as it approached 25.

* Not hyperbole, literally threw me back in my seat with full throttle acceleration.

I'd literally fail 12.3.3 just on that one experience alone. I enjoy spirited driving when I'm doing it on a high speed road or an interesting tight curve. This was a residential road with parked cars and no need, nor no great room for, maximum acceleration.

Later it successfully made an unprotected left turn.

I used it for couple of destinations and it was very surging on the throttle and brakes any time we were trying to maintain speed.

This is all with Chill settings and no ASSO and no over settings anywhere, no extra %, no extra mph, everything chill and flat.

Can it get me from A to B without a collision, yes, I think so.

Will I use it again? Not much, not while I'm still on 12.3.3. At least if I do I'll just use it after I'm over 30 mph and I'm on a big wide road.

 

[Phrugal Phan]

Notable events on today's 360 mile drive using 12.3.3. In general better than previous drives, but

--On US 15 in PA/MD most of the time it would set the speed limit to 15 MPH when it passed a US 15 sign, and set it back to the correct speed when it passed a real speed limit sign.

--Also on US 15, at on point it crossed the solid white line onto the shoulder as far as the rumble strip before getting back on the road. Never had that happen before.

The good news is that it didn't make random lane changes on 15. In fact it made a couple of lane changes that made sense. And the auto wipers worked great.

I came online to report the same issue on US 15. I drove on US15 last Friday and it did that at least a dozen times. Often it reset back to the correct speed after 5-15 seconds even without passing a real speed limit sign - though it did not start slowing down before resetting the limit back to the correct number. I also noticed a blue halo around the 15MPH speed limit indicator on the screen - I don't know what that indicated. One time it didn't reset back to the correct speed and started to slow down after about 10 seconds, and once I pressed on the pedal to get more speed it finally reset the speed limit.

Otherwise, the drive with FSD was great. It did better than I could do in extremely heavy traffic on the DC beltway. It changed lanes when I wouldn't have considered doing it, and it was always the correct choice.

 

[Tronguy]

OK, put more air in the tires this morning and took her out for a spin.

Cameras went from 99% to 98% overnight (regressed while asleep) but made it to 100% while I was driving.

Eventually I got to a side street, pulled into a marked space at the curb, put her in park and enabled Supervised FSD.

The side road was 25 mph, I put in a destination and put it in drive and engaged SFSD sitting at 0 mph, I was not expecting a jack rabbit start. It threw me back in my seat* with full throttle acceleration from 0-20 and let off the throttle as it approached 25.

* Not hyperbole, literally threw me back in my seat with full throttle acceleration.

Later it successfully made an unprotected left turn.

I used it for couple of destinations and it was very surging on the throttle and brakes any time we were trying to maintain speed.

This is all with Chill settings and no ASSO and no over settings anywhere, no extra %, no extra mph, everything chill and flat.

Can it get me from A to B without a collision, yes, I think so.

Will I use it again? Not much, not while I'm still on 12.3.3. At least if I do I'll just use it after I'm over 30 mph and I'm on a big wide road.

As it happens, I sold a 2018 M3 RWD LR in September last year. I had had FSD on the thing that got transferred to a newer 2023 M3 LR AWD.

Couple of notes on your experiences:

1. $DIETY only knows where the software on that car has been. The original 2018 cars did not come with HW3; one got the upgrade from HW2.5 to HW3 when one paid for FSD. Which I did the following year sometime.
2. There's this thing with Teslas: When they get their software upgraded, one often gets Weird Behavior, especially at first. Yeah, when doing a left or right on the 2023 M3 it does tend to accelerate a bit stiffly as it comes to the straight, but we're absolutely not talking neck-jerking here.
3. So: If you haven't done the double-scroll-wheel reset yet, Now Is The Time. Hold down both the left and right scroll wheels until (a) the screen goes black and for extra credit (b) the "T" appears. Let go and let it come to life. After that, then try out FSD and see if it's doing jerky acceleration again. People who really go for this approach often use the "Power Down" reset, in the (I think) the Service menu. Bring some reading material, bring up the Service menu, and power down the car with the appropriate button. Read your stuff for the next five or ten minutes without hitting any pedals.
4. When I got the very first 10.x version of FSD two years or so ago, on my first trial of the same, it literally turned left out of a parking lot instead of right, then got stuck on a dead-end street. Now, that was back then, this is now, and I've never seen that again. But your experience reminds me of that.. and, after doing a reset after that first drive, it didn't do it again.
5. There's been reports that when it comes to FSD, keeping the cameras clean is rather important. Yup, it's a new, cleaned up car. But occasional people have reported that after removing the front window camera housing so the windshield up there is exposed, a significant amount of plastic vapor coating and grime could be removed with rubbing alcohol. So, this is a 2018 car. Think that anybody has cleaned out the windshield in front of the cameras?
6. Last: Early Model 3s (and other Teslas) had a hardware bug on the body side turn signal markers where, when the LEDs were lit up on left and right turns, the camera views visible from inside the car went ORANGE when the side turns were on when it was dark out. Turns out that there were via holes in the little circuit boards inside the side marker lights/side-rear camera assemblies so when the LEDs were on, the cameras got light polluted. There are fixes for that: One is to get the side marker lights replaced with more modern versions (done by a mobile service tech in about 10 minutes), and there's these explicit home-brew methods which involve Very Carefully drilling a hole in the casing in a particular spot, reaching in with some thick black paint on a little brush, then sealing up the hole with some silicon goo. Instructions are in the forum somewhere, right down to the Exact Point to drill that hole. Did your issues occur at night?

Let us know if any of the above helps.

 

[dhanson865]

As it happens, I sold a 2018 M3 RWD LR in September last year. I had had FSD on the thing that got transferred to a newer 2023 M3 LR AWD.

Couple of notes on your experiences:

1. $DIETY only knows where the software on that car has been. The original 2018 cars did not come with HW3; one got the upgrade from HW2.5 to HW3 when one paid for FSD. Which I did the following year sometime.
2. There's this thing with Teslas: When they get their software upgraded, one often gets Weird Behavior, especially at first. Yeah, when doing a left or right on the 2023 M3 it does tend to accelerate a bit stiffly as it comes to the straight, but we're absolutely not talking neck-jerking here.
3. So: If you haven't done the double-scroll-wheel reset yet, Now Is The Time. Hold down both the left and right scroll wheels until (a) the screen goes black and for extra credit (b) the "T" appears. Let go and let it come to life. After that, then try out FSD and see if it's doing jerky acceleration again. People who really go for this approach often use the "Power Down" reset, in the (I think) the Service menu. Bring some reading material, bring up the Service menu, and power down the car with the appropriate button. Read your stuff for the next five or ten minutes without hitting any pedals.
4. When I got the very first 10.x version of FSD two years or so ago, on my first trial of the same, it literally turned left out of a parking lot instead of right, then got stuck on a dead-end street. Now, that was back then, this is now, and I've never seen that again. But your experience reminds me of that.. and, after doing a reset after that first drive, it didn't do it again.
5. There's been reports that when it comes to FSD, keeping the cameras clean is rather important. Yup, it's a new, cleaned up car. But occasional people have reported that after removing the front window camera housing so the windshield up there is exposed, a significant amount of plastic vapor coating and grime could be removed with rubbing alcohol. So, this is a 2018 car. Think that anybody has cleaned out the windshield in front of the cameras?
6. Last: Early Model 3s (and other Teslas) had a hardware bug on the body side turn signal markers where, when the LEDs were lit up on left and right turns, the camera views visible from inside the car went ORANGE when the side turns were on when it was dark out. Turns out that there were via holes in the little circuit boards inside the side marker lights/side-rear camera assemblies so when the LEDs were on, the cameras got light polluted. There are fixes for that: One is to get the side marker lights replaced with more modern versions (done by a mobile service tech in about 10 minutes), and there's these explicit home-brew methods which involve Very Carefully drilling a hole in the casing in a particular spot, reaching in with some thick black paint on a little brush, then sealing up the hole with some silicon goo. Instructions are in the forum somewhere, right down to the Exact Point to drill that hole. Did your issues occur at night?

Let us know if any of the above helps.

1. The software is 2024.3.10 with FSD Supervised 12.3.3. I'm sure that was installed by the service center as prep for delivery. I don't know if the prior owner paid for the upgrade, I know I didn't pay for the upgrade.

3. I did double scroll wheel reset yesterday when I found a bug in the trip planning UI. The software also did it's own reboot when I changed the text size to large yesterday. Not sure which was first but it's rebooted at least twice yesterday. I suppose I can do another reset now that I have cameras calibrated and have FSD enabled.

5. I'll take a look at the camera while the car is rebooting.

6. The drive I was discussing was literally 1-2 hours ago in full daylight sunny weather.

I'm only 2 blocks away from the same side road and can try it again to see if it's reproducible after the reboot.

 

[Occhis]

Wonder if it is more of a southern thing. I have heard the term "conniption fit" all my life, especially about kids and kinda thought it was just colloquialism. Does seem weird though.

Grew up in NYC area and it was(is?) used commonly there.

 

[Occhis]

New drive today -- I get much better behavior by driving with auto max speed OFF. I set my offset to 10% which gives good behavior on the slower streets, and is also easy to just quickly scroll the wheel if I need to adjust the speed. My problem with auto max is going way too fast on residential streets, and it's much easier to get the car to go faster than to get it to go slower, so auto max speed OFF works better for me.

I don't seem to have the issue where it's limited to 5 over, which is great because that would make FSD pretty useless in a lot of places for me. Only issue this morning really was one improper lane selection (always at the same place, so I keep reporting it), and one dry wipe.

Hate the dry wipe that just started recently. Wish they’d fix that.

 

[Ben W]

Tesla has the infrastructure in place to build the most accurate road maps that the world has ever seen. I keep wondering why they don't pursue that. Do they have a contractual agreement with map data providers to not pursue their own?

No matter how accurate the maps are, the car still needs to be able to recognize and override the maps when they're wrong, due to e.g. temporary changes or construction. And if the car has the ability to do this, then getting "perfect" maps is less important. They're probably happy to have Google and Apple do the heavy lifting on this, and figure out how to get the car to fill in the last 1% dynamically, rather than centralized.

 

[dhanson865]

1. The software is 2024.3.10 with FSD Supervised 12.3.3. I'm sure that was installed by the service center as prep for delivery. I don't know if the prior owner paid for the upgrade, I know I didn't pay for the upgrade.

3. I did double scroll wheel reset yesterday when I found a bug in the trip planning UI. The software also did it's own reboot when I changed the text size to large yesterday. Not sure which was first but it's rebooted at least twice yesterday. I suppose I can do another reset now that I have cameras calibrated and have FSD enabled.

5. I'll take a look at the camera while the car is rebooting.

6. The drive I was discussing was literally 1-2 hours ago in full daylight sunny weather.

I'm only 2 blocks away from the same side road and can try it again to see if it's reproducible after the reboot.

Did another reboot, inspected the cameras all looks good.

Went back to the same road and tried again. This time acceleration was much different. Strong but even acceleration from the stop to the speed limit.

Then it failed to make a left turn at a light.

I'll try more later

 

[JulienW]

My 2¢ of 12.3 vs 12.3.3. As someone who spent a long time on 12.3 I kept reading that 12.3.3 was little to no improvement (especially on ASSO) over 12.3 so I was mostly content not getting the update. Now after just 3 days on 12.3.3 for me at least it is a noticeable improvement and the ASSO is working many multiples better. While it is not perfect (like me anyway ) it is very good and only requires occasional pedal. With 10.3 I would often drive with the pedal pressed to keep up with traffic. Just did a full hour of ITP (only from ATL will know that )/inter city driving and 12.3.3 did fantastic. Only a few interventions and a couple of disengagements.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Now after just 3 days on 12.3.3 for me at least it is a noticeable improvement and the ASSO is working many multiples bette

Yes as was said here, it does seem to drive a few mph faster, it seems (never went back to video to confirm).

That works for people who were a few mph slow - gets to right speed. Unfortunately due to high speed limits in California this still ends up being a few mph slow in many places. (For example 47 in a 45, 52 in a 50, is what I see it get to. While the “going pace” is 50mph/55mph or a bit faster.)

I have not seen evidence of retraining of the NN though. I see it take exactly the same lines, approach, etc. There are differences in assertiveness, maybe.

Will be interesting to see if you note anything that is different.

 

[rlsd]

There have been reports of the visor blocking the camera in same cases. I'm guessing your visor was down going towards the sun?

My visor was down but it was close to the windshield. The visor was down for quite a while. I don't think it blocked the camera.

 

[Yelobird]

Yes as was said here, it does seem to drive a few mph faster, it seems (never went back to confirm).

That works for people who were a few mph slow - gets to right speed. Unfortunately due to high speed limits in California this still ends up being a few mph slow in many places. (For example 47 in a 45, 52 in a 50, is what I see it get to. While the “going pace” is 50mph/55mph or a bit faster.)

I have not seen evidence of retraining of the NN though. I see it take exactly the same lines, approach, etc. There are differences in assertiveness, maybe.

Will be interesting to see if you note anything that is different.

So based on your feedback it’s doing exactly as it should. At speed or 2-3 over. People need to start excepting that the target is a law abiding autonomous transport. Not a “I drive illegal it should do as I would”. IF there is Any goal of liability transfer we need to start accepting that it will Never disobey the primary law even if it’s not what others are doing or us.

 

[JulienW]

.......I have not seen evidence of retraining of the NN though. I see it take exactly the same lines, approach, etc. There are differences in assertiveness, maybe.

Will be interesting to see if you note anything that is different.

Could be wrong but I think that because v11< was rule based code and it was kinda easy to know when a IF THIS; DO THAT happened. Seems with v12 it is so dynamic in what it may do that it is hard to pin point improvements in driving from 12.3 to 12.3.3. Example: My first Yellow light on 12.3.3 it was an almost stop for me but it continued through without hesitation well into the intersection before Red the way v11 would do. I thought that was an improvement over 12.3 until the next yellow and almost to the intersection it started hard braking with a car behind me ready to go through. So I pressed through and the car behind me followed. And it did about the same over cautious Yellow stopping several more times.

So I was really most impressed with the ASSO improvement and was already over all happy with the "human" v12 feel vs the "robot" jerk fest of v11>.

Really looking forward to 11.4.x to see if it is "ChatGTP" moment update or the sorta 2 tiny steps forward and 1 big step back like it has been since 10.2.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It does respond to the scroll wheel down in Auto Max. It's just a slightly delayed response per scroll.

I actually have tried this - and I swear it DID work. But more recently I have tried this and it did not respond even after a significant delay. I don’t understand this of course. I am virtually certain I got some response before.

I tried this over and over again today and simply wasn't able to get it to respond appropriately, even after a delay.

Part of it is due to the car adjusting the limit back to +50% whenever a new different speed is detected, but I was able to confirm switching over that I had 0mph set and the car was not honoring that setting. I also tried some non-zero values.

In the end it's just not something that can be relied on, even if it sometimes does respond. Plus you can't see what speed you have set, which is a big problem.

So based on your feedback it’s doing exactly as it should. At speed or 2-3 over. People need to start excepting that the target is a law abiding autonomous transport.

It's not illegal to go 55mph in this 45mph zone. The speed limit is not enforceable. I live in California, not some police state.

In other areas with limits that may be enforceable (I don't know if a traffic study has been done recently), it is important to go the prevailing speed of traffic (as it is in the unenforceable 45mph zone). It's just a safety issue.

This is not autonomous transport!!! It's an L2 assist. Obviously they can follow different rules for autonomous transport.

 

[Yelobird]

I tried this over and over again today and simply wasn't able to get it to respond appropriately, even after a delay.

Part of it is due to the car adjusting the limit back to +50% whenever a new different speed is detected, but I was able to confirm switching over that I had 0mph set and the car was not honoring that setting. I also tried some non-zero values.

In the end it's just not something that can be relied on, even if it sometimes does respond. Plus you can't see what speed you have set, which is a big problem.



It's not illegal to go 55mph in this 45mph zone. The speed limit is not enforceable. I live in California, not some police state.

In other areas with limits that may be enforceable (I don't know if a traffic study has been done recently), it is important to go the speed of prevailing traffic. It's just a safety issue.

This is not autonomous transport!!! It's an L2 assist. Obviously they can follow different rules for autonomous transport.

Yet that’s not how the FHA views it.

POSTED SPEED LIMIT​

Posted speed limits (sometimes called regulatory speed limits) are those that are sign-posted along the road and are enforceable by law. A posted speed limit could be the same as the statutory speed set by the State legislature, or it could be established by a city, county, or State transportation agency as an adjustment to the statutory speed limit. Some cities and counties will establish a blanket speed limit for roads in their jurisdictions. Those limits are generally posted at the city limits or county lines. The posted speed limit can differ from the statutory speed limit; in these cases, the posted speed limit is determined using an engineering speed study and takes priority over the established statutory speed limit.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The posted speed limit can differ from the statutory speed limit; in these cases, the posted speed limit is determined using an engineering speed study and takes priority over the established statutory speed limit.

This is exactly my point. The posted speed limit is not enforceable in this case. This is why we have laws.

In any case it is irrelevant - it’s a driver assist and as such I am in control of (and responsible for) picking a speed which is the safest for conditions. The car needs to allow that control in as straightforward a manner as possible.

Of particular note - note ASSO mode does not seem to allow you to stop the car from speeding. This is a different issue, but it also seems like a defect. So I do not think: “It’s doing exactly as it should” is correct.