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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
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- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
TjckTock
Member
It is a little unusual but it is well marked with good signage. Any human driver would have no problems even the first time encountering it. There *is* a lot of excess road there. I think they plan to add another lane eventually and figured asphalt is lower maintenance for the time being.
Honestly not a single person today is asking for radar with the current vision performance. You can't even prove that radar was safer when like I said, we had way more AP crashes per car sold when radar was in use.
Depends where you drive as others have pointed out. For me V12 is dramatically better than V11. Not even close and I started testing FSD in October 2021 and I've posted many negative comments about FSD. But I understand for others FSD hasn't improved as much for them. Just wish Tesla could address this variability.
Geography matters of course. Nobody uses their indicators in roundabouts where I live so for me that's not an issue but for others it's a problem. Number one problem for me is how timid FSD is with cars behind me. I haven't had a critical safety disengagement in awhile so that is a big improvement over V11. Feedback from passengers in the back is always better than front passengers. Rear passengers generally don't care or notice what speed FSD is going.
An interesting exercise is to consider after the drive is over if FSD would have reached the destination safely if you hadn't disengaged or intervened and were in the rear seat. Gives you a different perspective on the drive. FSD still has a lot to improve but's it's getting there. Really need V12 highway stack.
I wonder if FSD will ever take personal driving preferences into account. Like it would know you comfortably take a ramp at 70 so it would remember to do that. One of the more annoying things that's been in every FSD version is it drives so differently than how I do, often slamming on the brakes because I take an exit at 70 and it wants to be doing 60.
It should be the norm but things like context are next level. Unfortunately for now we are suppose to be excited there's a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.
Here's a common scenario where FSD is unable to properly interpret. The lead vehicle wants to backup and park in the open space. FSD tailgating discourages the opportunity. FSD rides the bumper like a mad dawg.
No doubt, eventually. I'm OK with getting the safety level way up before adding more convenience features. To have it drive for us at all is a massive convenience feature already...when it isn't making me look like an idiot to other drivers. So job 1 is to make it stop embarrassing me, then job the rest can be all the sexy stuff.
My sweet summer child.... if AVs were to rely on crowd sourced reported map corrections the results would be unreliable. There's a reason why wikipedia is mocked as a source, it can be excellent and it can vandalized.
A dark side of comedy: the impact of John Oliver's 'fowl' jokes on Wikipedia – Wikimedia Foundation
After John Oliver called on the Internet to vandalize the Wikipedia biographies of US congressional representatives, Wikipedia's volunteer editors cleaned up the vandalism.
wikimediafoundation.org
Crowd-sourcing to train FSD is questionable in my mind (I note TMCers who think driving over 100mph could be important for 'safety' and routinely driving at 90mph is a god given and responsible right/action in the US) but at least it isn't as if tesla drivers made a point of driving badly in order to sabotage the NN training. If we ask AVs to rely more on mapping data that is crowd sourced, that crowd sourcing needs to be from disengagement triggered recorded driver reporting, with either AI or a human confirming the car's video aligns with the disengagement report from the driver and tesla making the report to the mapping software company.
I agree, reporting to Google Maps can work. In my neighbourhood, once realizing Google Maps routed beach traffic onto my no-exit street and through our apartment building's surface parking lot, our local traffic committee put in a successful concerted effort of reporting from committee members, and me asking the landlord, as property owner, to report the error to Google. Signs by the city and landlord were ignored but the volume of traffic on summer weekends on the no-exit part of the street has dropped considerably now that the route remains on city streets. I'm willing to bet, though, a concerted effort by bad-actors would reroute things back again.
I took couple rides in Phoenix, AZ. Rides were in downtown area and coverage zone was limited. Only drops off where it deems safe to stop so your ride ending may not be exactly where you wish to go. Drive quality was smooth, I would say similar to Tesla FSD v12.3.3. Follows speed limits to the letter as can be expected. Acceleration & deceleration is smooth and does not cause passenger anxiety. Did not have any road interaction with other vehicles to be able to comment on how well or worse it does compared to FSD. I would say overall it did a great job in the limited coverage area if offered and I was completely at ease while it drove me around.
Not true. It was not tailgating and there is almost an entire car length between them at ONLY 9MPH.. There is a truck that is double parked and it must go around. The lead car has passed the parking spot before it even hit its brakes (late decision on their part) much less indicates in any way it wants to park. In this pic it hasn't even hit the brakes yet, much less put it in Reverse. So no human could know they were wanting to park in that spot.
Of course it can't back up so that is on the driver of the car.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Who said this? (Not me, for sure, so must have been someone else.) I made it very clear I wanted to be able to go 88mph, on rare occasions when brief (2-3 seconds) excursions above 80mph are needed to reposition the vehicle to avoid other traffic.
Going above 90 mph when the normal flow of traffic is 80mph is completely unnecessary, even for vehicle repositioning, and probably even most emergencies (and obviously you are allowed in emergencies, you just get locked out).
I would also note that there are roads with speed limits of 75mph where the going rate of traffic is around 85mph (e.g. I-8 in AZ). This gets really close to that lockout limit (which in practice is 87mph). Especially if someone traveling faster than the flow of traffic unexpectedly comes from behind (rare there but it could happen).
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You're snapshot is a bit early as FSD closes the gap before the lead vehicle stops and is unaware of the driver's intent to back-up. The double parked pickup is a red-herring. Admittedly wide angle lens distort distance so it is difficult to assess but when you can't see the rear wheels of a moving lead vehicle it's too close for a safety driver assist system let alone a marginally performing assist system. And before you suggest it, the lead vehicle never backed up.
I should add, moments later v12 rode the lead vehicle again as it began moving forward. Tailgating is a v12 feature.
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Google does have stop signs and signals, but they're only visible while actually navigating.
There's a YouTuber in SF who posts numerous POV Waymo rides. Here's one of his latest:
These "faster lane" messages for what FSD is doing means 11.x stack is active, so that's another indication 12.x has switched from city streets to freeway. Yesterday I saw a rare / new-ish message "Changing lanes to avoid neighboring vehicle" (added in some 11.4.9?) immediately when AUTO max speed disappeared, so maybe there was some slight confusion when transitioning between stacks as I couldn't see what neighboring vehicle it needed to move away from.
ZOOX does a ton of testing in our neighborhood, I could predict where they would pop out by time of day and dow… about six months ago I had to pull my wife over to the shoulder as the zoox highlander was coming right at us while in the bike lane/walking lane.. granted, we are walking INTO the flow of traffic - but a lot of ppl do that, runners, ppl with headphones, etc.. I can only hope that the zoox vehicle was under the drivers control at that point and they were shopping on Amazon.
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