FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[KLam]

After the release of v12 of FSD, I read a lot of evaluations of v12 to be better and a lot of evaluations of v12 to be bad. I was puzzled a bit, for my experiences have been better (I have only tested v12 on my neighborhood local city streets).

Then I realized that I have not evaluated v12 on two lane curvy Highways with turn in, turn out, occasionally signals, etc. like part of Route 152).

The path of v11 FSDb development is different from v12 FSDS.

For v11, it was a merge of the FSD v11 City and FSD v11 Highway codes. FSD v11 Highway was a re-code of the Old original Divided Highway code (AP, TACC, NOA etc) using the FSD v11 City code method. v11 City code always have problems with unmarked roads, narrow streets, speed control on local roads etc. but was pretty good on two lane curvy Highways (part of Route 152 using the v11 City code).

Now, that v12 coding method have resulted in pretty good City street driving, but have problems with two lane curvy Highways. (I have not tested to see if its worst then the v11 City code).

 

[j0shm1lls]

I'm sorry if this is a really dumb question. But you know to only check for updates when you're on a good Wi-Fi connection, right?
If anyone tells you it doesn't matter. They're wrong..
I am like Joe Isuzu, would I lie???

Sir, I am a seasoned, grizzled tester. Of course I always ensure I'm connected to Wi-Fi prior to checking for updates.

 

[Cheburashka]

As pointed out highway is still V11 so there should be very little difference on highways compared to past builds for you.
Was there anything in V12 that was better than V11 on city/streets or are you just highlighting the negative?

And yet it's much worse for me on highways.

Didn't use v12 enough on city streets. Hard to trust it after my short drive. Easier to just drive manually.

 

[enemji]

And yet it's much worse for me on highways.

Didn't use v12 enough on city streets. Hard to trust it after my short drive. Easier to just drive manually.

We all here are enjoying the life of a test pilot, which in earlier days of technology, was reserved for select handful few.

 

[TK211X]

It would be hilarious if the AP data bank was unchanged and everyone is talking about fake FSD changes.

 

[Ben W]

On the freeway a couple days ago, my Model Y with FSD ran straight over a (thankfully empty!) 5-gallon plastic bucket. I had momentarily glanced away from the road (terrible timing) so I missed it, but my passenger said that any human driver who saw it coming would have swerved around it. This is the FSD 11 stack of course, and hopefully once the end-to-end stack is enabled for highways it will better be able to handle things like this. Also, I completely agree about potholes; there's a spot on my daily commute where I always have to disable FSD and manually dodge potholes to avoid tire damage.

Dashcam video of FSD v12/v11 making no attempt to avoid the bucket, if you're curious. It's particularly odd because the car in front of me did swerve around it; I would have expected FSD to take this into account [through implicit training on similar scenarios], when deciding which obstacles need avoidance. So we can add large plastic buckets to curbs and potholes (and large puddles) on the list of things that Tesla still needs to train its system to avoid!

 

[JulienW]

It would be hilarious if the AP data bank was unchanged and everyone is talking about fake FSD changes.

Every drive is different and 2 identical cars/software will drive the same drive different so it is easy to see that people that just installed a new version will perceive any anecdotal differences to the NEW install. Just human nature.

 

[TK211X]

Every drive is different and 2 identical cars/software will drive the same drive different so it is easy to see that people that just installed a new version will perceive any anecdotal differences to the NEW install. Just human nature.

Odd that nobody with 2024.3.10 has checked yet.

 

[hey8you]

Installed v12.3.4 this morning. First drive to work, it's still doing the bad things v12.3.3 was doing. Did not drive enough to decide better or worse yet but Autopark has definitely gotten worse for me. Now it wants to use the wall as the brakes. Tried it 3 times on 3 different spots at the garage at my work. 2 had good lighting and one spot was dark. Last V12 versions did great but now not so much. It does park perfectly in between the lines though, lol.

 

[gottagofast]

1 specific curb that I would always have to disengage in town before I hit it with 12.3.0 has been fixed with 12.3.3

 

[KLam]

Dashcam video of FSD v12/v11 making no attempt to avoid the bucket, if you're curious. It's particularly odd because the car in front of me did swerve around it; I would have expected FSD to take this into account [through implicit training on similar scenarios], when deciding which obstacles need avoidance. So we can add large plastic buckets to curbs and potholes (and large puddles) on the list of things that Tesla still needs to train its system to avoid!

Yet, a lot of people still complaint FSDS not follow close enough. Phantom or not, sudden braking of car in front happens a lot. So get away when car behind follow too close and don't follow too close as not to let other cars cut in. Drive safely!!

 

[lzolman]

Had the closest I've ever come to a zero-intervention trip today (was still on 12.3.3, although 12.3.4 just finished installing a minute ago.)

My only intervention was hitting the go pedal early on in the trip on the highway when it really didn't make much difference and I was just impatient, but then I decided I'd bite the bullet and go whatever speed it wants, so the rest of the drive was sans go pedal.

The drive was only 90 minutes, Portland, ME to North Reading, MA. There were no mistakes of any kind, plenty of slick moves (nice handling of a lane drop after a right turn at a light with fast traffic approaching), and only 2-3 spots I would typically hit go when there's traffic behind me (but didn't this trip). I was in Average mode.

Just about all issues I ever see (except ones specific to my problematic intersection down the street) show up in this thread before I ever get that FSD version to be able to see them. I consider that a Good Thing so I'm forewarned of the glitches. Here's one I do not recall reading, but it's probably been posted by someone:

I drive in "Minimal Lane Changes" whenever I've remembered to hit it (usually regretting it when I forget lol). Much of the time when I hit the directional and the target lane is clear, it makes the lane change pretty quickly. But V12 will sometimes just wait and wait and wait... on the drive up yesterday I counted up to about 13 seconds and it has still not begun the change (no cars anywhere near me except for the guy coming up fast on my tail in the fast lane.) So I disengaged and changed lanes before the guy could begin to think of me as a Masshole (this was in Maine.) Between the trip up and the return trip, there were 3 instances of such reluctance to make the lane change. I think once it did get started after about 15 seconds. But the time I'm talking about I disengaged to be able to report it.

I'm enjoying the way it now leaves a nice healthy amount of space between me and the car ahead of me, even when below the Max speed setting (I-95 here, so on the V11 stack). Clearly they're still tweaking the old highway stack, good!

I can be nit-picky and there was just a pleasant shortage of things to be loudly critical about this trip. Nice progress. Looking forward to 12.4. I'm assuming I'll have no better luck on my funky intersection down the street, based on what everyone has been reporting about .3 vs. .4. If I'm pleasantly surprised, I'll definitely post about it.

 

[gottagofast]

Had the closest I've ever come to a zero-intervention trip today (was still on 12.3.3, although 12.3.4 just finished installing a minute ago.)

My only intervention was hitting the go pedal early on in the trip on the highway when it really didn't make much difference and I was just impatient, but then I decided I'd bite the bullet and go whatever speed it wants, so the rest of the drive was sans go pedal.

The drive was only 90 minutes, Portland, ME to North Reading, MA. There were no mistakes of any kind, plenty of slick moves (nice handling of a lane drop after a right turn at a light with fast traffic approaching), and only 2-3 spots I would typically hit go when there's traffic behind me (but didn't this trip). I was in Average mode.

Just about all issues I ever see (except ones specific to my problematic intersection down the street) show up in this thread before I ever get that FSD version to be able to see them. I consider that a Good Thing so I'm forewarned of the glitches. Here's one I do not recall reading, but it's probably been posted by someone:

I drive in "Minimal Lane Changes" whenever I've remembered to hit it (usually regretting it when I forget lol). Much of the time when I hit the directional and the target lane is clear, it makes the lane change pretty quickly. But V12 will sometimes just wait and wait and wait... on the drive up yesterday I counted up to about 13 seconds and it has still not begun the change (no cars anywhere near me except for the guy coming up fast on my tail in the fast lane.) So I disengaged and changed lanes before the guy could begin to think of me as a Masshole (this was in Maine.) Between the trip up and the return trip, there were 3 instances of such reluctance to make the lane change. I think once it did get started after about 15 seconds. But the time I'm talking about I disengaged to be able to report it.

I'm enjoying the way it now leaves a nice healthy amount of space between me and the car ahead of me, even when below the Max speed setting (I-95 here, so on the V11 stack). Clearly they're still tweaking the old highway stack, good!

I can be nit-picky and there was just a pleasant shortage of things to be loudly critical about this trip. Nice progress. Looking forward to 12.4. I'm assuming I'll have no better luck on my funky intersection down the street, based on what everyone has been reporting about .3 vs. .4. If I'm pleasantly surprised, I'll definitely post about it.

There’s some people with actual 12.4?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

This sums up my general FSD 12.x mood:

Poorly done by me (should have had both hands on wheel, probably would not have gotten quite so far if I had been 100% ready, but I really expected the car to come to a halt again at the stop line (as legally required if the light had been red when it arrived there), rather than launching into the turn before the light turned green).

Obviously my reaction to the light turning green is limited, but I was actually watching the pedestrian, NOT the light, so I missed that for a bit. Anyway, here is the earliest I could have physically reacted if I had been looking at the light (car already going 8mph):

Also poorly done by the car. Not cool.

Edge case?

 

[lzolman]

There’s some people with actual 12.4?

Not that I'm aware of, I just said I'm looking forward to it because I don't expect versions prior to that will have had more NN training.

 

[swedge]

Wow v12 is awful for me here in the SF Bay area. v11 was much much better.

- kept driving over the ribbed part, over the lane markers, and over the botts dots on Hwy 17.
- blew right past the 17/85 interchange
- auto speed limit was set to 65 in the 50 zone where cops always camp on 17
- missed the exit from 85 to El Camino in Mountain View
- at intersections applies way too much throttle mid right turn for seemingly no reason
- was going through a roundabout and got the red both hands on wheel message out of nowhere
- got a Toollbooth detected message on 17 before a pedo overpass

I wouldn't pay even $49.99 for this.

Highway 85 is a freeway, and V11 is active there, not V12. Highway 17 is also designated by FSD as freeway, except between Scotts Valley and Los Gatos, at least the last time I drove it, so it FSD switches to V11 on much of 17 as well.

 

[Cheburashka]

Highway 85 is a freeway, and V11 is active there, not V12. Highway 17 is also designated by FSD as freeway, except between Scotts Valley and Los Gatos, at least the last time I drove it, so it FSD switches to V11 on much of 17 as well.

Right, but it still got worse for me. I live by the part that is not designated as a freeway and on that it constantly goes over the white lines. Can't keep inside the lane at any of the big turns which is not only bad, it's extremely dangerous.

Today by Lexington the "auto" speed setting accelerated to 70mph in the rain.

One notable improvement for me with this fw is the auto wipers.

 

[FSDtester#1]

Sir, I am a seasoned, grizzled tester. Of course I always ensure I'm connected to Wi-Fi prior to checking for updates.

Great to hear you know the difference between Wifi and Hifi...always being last to get any updates makes you probably the most knowledgeable of all the tricks in the book!

 

[FSDtester#1]

Dashcam video of FSD v12/v11 making no attempt to avoid the bucket, if you're curious. It's particularly odd because the car in front of me did swerve around it; I would have expected FSD to take this into account [through implicit training on similar scenarios], when deciding which obstacles need avoidance. So we can add large plastic buckets to curbs and potholes (and large puddles) on the list of things that Tesla still needs to train its system to avoid!

If it was a full keg of beer , it would of taken you into the wall to avoid it...

 

[FSDtester#1]

Just human nature.

Agreed, Michael Jackson knew it in 1983...