Had this excellent series of decisions in downtown DC traffic last week (v12.3.4). Just wanted to share, cheers.
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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
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- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
Used v12.3.4 for the first time since my 2023 Model Y Performance received it. I have to say I really wasn't that impressed. Yes, it's gotten a little better but the stopping before stop signs and lights with the slow creep thing takes too long when there is not cross traffic and cars are behind you wanting to get things moving along. Then it went into the right lane when you could clearly see that lane would be merging back into the left lane, and when it did that it didn't even use the blinkers and should have because there was a lot of traffic. It ignored the speed limit that was posted for a bend in the road and then slowed almost to a stop at another bend.
Today's 330 mile trip using FSDS was great, except for the parts that were terrible. All of the terrible parts seem to be due to FSDS reading route signs as speed limits.
Driving on or near US 209 FSDS would sometimes set the speed limit to 20, presumably because it was reading some 209 signs as 20MPH signs. Annoying, but not too bad most of time since traffic was very light and the real speed limit was mostly between 35 and 55 mph.
In contrast driving on US 15 was nerve racking. It was constantly going from 55 to 15, or 65 to 15. That was bad, and it seemed that when it thought the speed limit 15 mph but the max speed was set 65 or 75 it would try make lane changes between cars that were very close together, almost as if it thought traffic was moving at 15 mph. If this had been my first time using FSDS I'm not sure there would have been a second time.
Also, at one point while trying to change lanes it just straddled the lane divider and stayed there for what seemed like a very long time before I disengaged FSD and finished the lane change.
Not optimistic about RoboTaxi...
Driving on or near US 209 FSDS would sometimes set the speed limit to 20, presumably because it was reading some 209 signs as 20MPH signs. Annoying, but not too bad most of time since traffic was very light and the real speed limit was mostly between 35 and 55 mph.
In contrast driving on US 15 was nerve racking. It was constantly going from 55 to 15, or 65 to 15. That was bad, and it seemed that when it thought the speed limit 15 mph but the max speed was set 65 or 75 it would try make lane changes between cars that were very close together, almost as if it thought traffic was moving at 15 mph. If this had been my first time using FSDS I'm not sure there would have been a second time.
Also, at one point while trying to change lanes it just straddled the lane divider and stayed there for what seemed like a very long time before I disengaged FSD and finished the lane change.
Not optimistic about RoboTaxi...
Having observed all the back-and-forth here about what L2/L3/L4 and the word "drive" mean, I thought I had it pretty straight. Yet I'm finding myself now involved in a little FB debate over whether L3 requires the human to be "engaged" while it's doing the driving. My conclusion from the SAE chart is "No", if I were behind the wheel while an L3 system is driving, I could be watching a movie or reading a book...or (and this is the part being debated), I could be taking a little catnap. The other guy says, basically, I can't take a nap because I have to be ready to take over at any time. Is there any clear guidance on what "must be ready to take over" really means w/r/t that? I think I could take over about as quickly from a semi-conscious state as I could from being in a good book or movie...
mtndrew1
Active Member
I have been using FSD for two and a half years to go from my father’s house to the freeway. This trip is about ten miles through a sparsely populated area and involves one right turn and three protected intersections through which the car must proceed.
FSD, incredibly, has never been able to manage this without multiple disengagements. It would try to turn right from the incorrect lane (on the only turn), it would dart diagonally across a simple intersection to a lane that ends, and it would change lanes to a lane that ends and get stuck shortly before I got on the freeway.
Anyway 12.whatever was finally able to do this run without a serious disengagement (I did one to technically comply with traffic laws but nobody actually behaves that way in this area).
Shoot in another two and a half years it might be able to make the same trip in the opposite direction!
FSD, incredibly, has never been able to manage this without multiple disengagements. It would try to turn right from the incorrect lane (on the only turn), it would dart diagonally across a simple intersection to a lane that ends, and it would change lanes to a lane that ends and get stuck shortly before I got on the freeway.
Anyway 12.whatever was finally able to do this run without a serious disengagement (I did one to technically comply with traffic laws but nobody actually behaves that way in this area).
Shoot in another two and a half years it might be able to make the same trip in the opposite direction!
My regular weekend campsite drive - 100 mile round trip with 12.3.4.
All the usual good bits were good, including a one positive surprise.
First the positive surprise - with no update since 12.3.4 it has suddenly started seeing 65mph signs. Not consistently, but that was interesting that it just started working.
The bad bits were the usual signaling left one a two lane road, then attempting to cross the double yellow lines into oncoming traffic.
Also found a new WTF, new tar stripes on the road made the car weave left/right/left/right then lose track of our side of the road - at 68mph.
Last new one was it just changing lanes without warning or signaling of any kind, very strange.
It feels like the acceleration away from lights/junctions/stop signs has degraded. It accelerates hard to 46mph then just stays there for 1/2 a mile before slowly (really slowly) speeding up to the speed limit (55 in this case). Not smooth at all, its like a learner just got into a fast car and can't control speed.
All the usual good bits were good, including a one positive surprise.
First the positive surprise - with no update since 12.3.4 it has suddenly started seeing 65mph signs. Not consistently, but that was interesting that it just started working.
The bad bits were the usual signaling left one a two lane road, then attempting to cross the double yellow lines into oncoming traffic.
Also found a new WTF, new tar stripes on the road made the car weave left/right/left/right then lose track of our side of the road - at 68mph.
Last new one was it just changing lanes without warning or signaling of any kind, very strange.
It feels like the acceleration away from lights/junctions/stop signs has degraded. It accelerates hard to 46mph then just stays there for 1/2 a mile before slowly (really slowly) speeding up to the speed limit (55 in this case). Not smooth at all, its like a learner just got into a fast car and can't control speed.
j0shm1lls
Member
Pleasantly surprised that FSD recognized and understood blinkers from an 18 wheeler truck ahead of me and to my right lane .
My car was trying to accelerate to catch up to speed limit since my lane was freed when a slow car in front of me got out of the way. The truck to my right and ahead of me, then wanted to get into my lane and my car recognized the blinkers and slowed down just enough for the truck to safely switch into my lane. Good job.
My car was trying to accelerate to catch up to speed limit since my lane was freed when a slow car in front of me got out of the way. The truck to my right and ahead of me, then wanted to get into my lane and my car recognized the blinkers and slowed down just enough for the truck to safely switch into my lane. Good job.
mgs333
Member
My car's been recognizing and letting cars in for turn signals since v11. Yesterday, it also let a semi in, which got a very appreciative thanks from the driver.
zoomer0056
Active Member
I saw the same response. Except it was reacting to my turn signal as seen in a trailers reflectors. The trailer did not have signal lights.
It's welcomed but I don't have high hope. Like other previous v12.x it was tested by employees in only less than 3 days. I will not be happy if it does not fix at least 3 dangerous bugs.
PianoAl
Active Member
I find it very hard to see if their steering wheel icon is blue.
But seriously, I'm always curious about who's using FSD, but how do you tell?
- Stop sign behavior?
- Driving on the edge of the lane?
- Moves over when truck is in adjacent lane?
If I'm following a Tesla and it remains dead center in the lane, except for perfectly smooth miniscule shifts away from large vehicles, I take that as FSD in action.
Exactly! Elon letting everyone try FSD 30 days for free may backfire on him, because those who have never used FSD before and then have a bad experience won't want to use it again. I have a friend who road with his brother 6 months ago who has FSD, and he didn't think it was good all. So he would never buy it even when people tell him it's much better now.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
For L3 you need to be ready to take over within several seconds. So no way the driver can take a nap. Doesn't matter what you personally claim you can do, it's based on the average person. Most average people can be interrupted from a book or movie and regain awareness in several seconds, but not when they are napping (not unless they did special training like for example in the special forces).
The chart doesn't tell the whole thing, refer to the full J3016 spec.
I don't have the full copy with me, but this link gives the relevant parts:
But that's because the purchaser of said computer would also have to buy Windows if it wasn't included. But Tesla dont have to buy anything from anyone to add FSD to a car. And so it would be with Microsoft, why would they pay extra money to buy a computer with Windows on it?
When you are buying something, you are paying for the value you, as a purchaser, perceive. It doesnt matter to you what the SELLER perceives as value. There is zero value to Tesla to spend extra $$$ to buy FSD from you, since the manufacturing cost for them to add it to the car after purchase is zero.
Of course, and I'm not saying you should. The point was the assumption people made that the car would ALWAYS brake that way no matter what was behind them.
Projecting one negative experience as a trend is silly. My son and son-in-law are now both considering subscribing to FSD after using the free trial offer. Previously both had negative experiences as passengers in my car using FSD V11. Projecting my example as a trend would be equally silly. Time will tell.
The important question to me is, does it EVER hard brake unnecessarily with someone dangerously close behind? At least since V12? Like, has anyone here had that happen?
zoomer0056
Active Member
I'm assuming that you're assuming the free trial was only to get subscribers. There's another benefit .... thousands (maybe more) of more miles of data input.
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